I like AMW because they essentially all assemble the same -- doesn't matter on formulation, diameter, etc. If you know how to assemble a small load, then you know how to do a large load. Combine that with local availability (Jim Amos), the very real likelihood of being able to rent hardware (Jim used to rent hardware, I think he still does?) and I really can't see any reason to fly AeroTech. That's my take, anyway.

For shear efficiency on the dollars, though, it is hard to be the RATT M900. A reload is about $85 + something like twenty bucks for nox. Of course you have design challenges with a motor that is 6' long. That said, several of us have flown that load. I've been over 18K with it twice. Your actual mileage may vary 😉

This reminds me of the childhood argument of which is better Ford or Chevy? or who can forget PC or Mac? It is really a personal choice. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I use mostly Aerotech but that's because I own my own casings and I do love the white lightning propellant. The cost of AMW is greater especially if you include hardware rental cost. But, the skidmarks are very nice too, but only when you can fly them because the fire danger is low enough... I could go on, but you get the idea. Do you own research.

Doug

Doug, this is my research. 😉 I agree, from what I've read, seen, etc., there are both good and "bad" about both. I like the AT propellants, redline and white lightning especially, but the white wolf looks good, too. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, I guess. While there are different sized O rings with AT, that really doesn't bother me. If both motors are equally durable and reliable, then to each his own, right? Nice to have choices. I remember when FSI F's and Centuri Enerjets & Mini-Max's were the only choices. 🙂

(sorry, I guess I don't consider asking peoples opinion as research 😉 )

If you're looking for a list of considerations, here are a few more.

- No tools required for assembly on AT, snap rings on AMW.
- More choices of propellants with AMW, more thrust curves (burn times) with AT.
- Disassembly and clean up easier on AT.
- Longer history of reliable motors with AT.
- More delay/tracking smoke with AMW.
- Reusable nozzle on AMW, one time use on AT.
- AT motors seem to ignite easier than some propellants of AMW.

I'll let you do the cost comparison and availability for your area. Some of these items won't carry any weight for you and could mean a great deal to someone else. If you need to borrow a AT casing for Oktoberfest, let me know and I should be able to accommodate you.

Doug

Doug, that's great of you to offer a casing, but I won't be flying for L3 until MHM. The rocket will be ready, but I have to pay back the family fortune (or misfortune :)) for the rocket before I can borrow again to fly it. I've thought about all the features, and most of all, I'm used to AT casings and reloads. Ease of cleaning for me is really important. I do know at some point I'll use AMW, but probably not until after L3... once the pressure is off. 🙄 You know, that's one of the many things about this hobby that I really appreciate... pretty hard to get bored or find nothing new to do, right?

Regarding the AMW / Aerotech / RATT thing. I realize I added the RATT component to your thread, and you may have zero interest in pursuing it. That said, I'm a huge fan of long-burn motors. TWELVE seconds of burn on the RATT M900!!!!!!!! Yowza!!!!!!!

Having flown all three, I can tell you that the RATT cleanup is far and away the easiest. It also has the least options regarding propellant, and no tracking smoke whatsover. As Doug noted, some of these issues are more important to one person vs. the next.

One cautionary note on the AMW Green Gorilla formulation - it seems to burn hotter than blue blazes. Very hot. Too hot for my liking. But it is a gorgeous motor.

It is good to have choices!

It is a reasoning of Personal opinion and Doug has a point there. But I base mine from things that matter to me anyhow as well as some pure logic. I agree with some of what you are saying Doug but not all..Thus is why I still would rather chose a AMW. And not to state as an argument but just what I see and belive...

Like I wish to support someone who supports the club in big ways by purchasing from Jim Amos. To buy AT you have to purchase out of state and pay shipping and hazmat fees and the money doesnt do any benifit to someone that has done so much for us.

AMW motors are less expensive for many loads if not most compared to the rough couterparts from AT and they to have some varainces in burn time and curves as well as great color and effect. The N2000 from AT is way more money then the N2020WT from AMW I ordered for my L3 flight.

Ive used both AT and AMW hardware I felt that the snap ring deal was no biggie and I would clean 3 AMW cases to 1 AT case myself personnaly. Its all in the prep work as far as i can see.

AT may have been around a long time BUT remember Kosdon motors. Basically the same in hardware and long has been proven very reliable.(beings that Paul Robinson was Kosdon East) Case in point an example is the latest LDRS pretty well every M1850 from AT Catoed.. You VERY rarely ever hear about a Cato from anything AMW makes. Plus ask anyone that knows the folks at AWM. They are the higest in class act of people to have for manufactures. They are the most strait foreword help the hobby group I think anyone can meet.

Another great factor I like.. the AMW forward closure is allready tapped and threaded to be able to attach a Eybolt right there for a deployment anchor. No need to get a custom made or drilled and tapped pluged closure.

Dont get me wrong, AT has done lots of great things over the years and I would fly an AT motor as I have done many times. But I must admit I lean way more towards being an AMW person.

As far as the hybrid. it is cool Ive seen it fly on johns stuff before. BUT I would think someone would wish to experince the smaller hybrids to prepare for use of a bigger one as it does add some more complexity with GSE and the such. AP is just set it out and fire it up..

As Doug has said before.. just my opinion.. and you know what they say about opinions..

Good points, all. Also remember that member Tim Thomas is GLR's rep and sells AT at all launches, and with a LEUP, brings what he sells to every launch. Support both Tim and Jim.

Pretty sure only one M1850 catod, and many had safe flights...

I've flown both, and I'll stand the exact opposite of other opinions here - at least regarding the 38mm AMW, I'll clean 10 aerotech motors if I can avoid one AMW. Certainly each has its advantages though - I personally fly and love both, at least in 38mm so far, and I can't say I have been disappointed by either.

As for failures, I have seen more Aerotech than AMW failures, but it's hard to say about the failure rate, as I've also seen a LOT more aerotech flights. I'd say you're fairly safe with both reliability wise, and either is a great choice.

According to about 6 or 7 people that I spoke with that were there and That are even members of our group said most of the M1850 AT motors Catoed. It wasnt just one as far as they told me. Infact it caused Paul from AMW to go check the issue out cause he thought it was his stuff and was gonna handle it on the spot. Now for 38mm stuff, That may be different. But once again I belive that clean up alot of the times has to do with the prep from the begining as well as what you clean with. Im sure that if Joel from AMW says he has no issues and if you follow his guidlines for both prep and clean its not that hard.

Once again. It is a matter of preference. I wouldnt wish any ill harm or loss of any vendor unless they were doing bad things or just flat out wrong to their customers. Anyhow. Just my thoughts..I would fly about anything be it AMW, AT, CTI, or LOKI. I will someday take the venture down the hybrid trail.. but I am to much of an AP junkie to yet do so.

Ok, I'll take your word for it then...

I only saw one cato, and I know I saw at least 2 successful flights, but I could have easily missed some other catos.

I will agree with you though - I have aerotech, amw, and loki, and fly and love all 3 🙂

Never tried a CTI, but I'm sure I would love them just as much as my current stuff (may pick up some pro38 stuff sometime though).

To buy AT you have to purchase out of state and pay shipping and hazmat fees and the money doesnt do any benifit to someone that has done so much for us.

This is not true. As stated by someone else above Tim Thomas supplies AT motors and reloads at every launch I have attended so far. Also, Joe Cowan (sp?) who runs the Hobbytown in Longmont (i think) stocks a very nice supply of AT stuff, or at least did the last time I was there. Even my local Hobby shop down here in Littleton carries some AT stuff.

Anyway, I have and like both AMW and AT hardware and reloads. I just didn't want the AT guys overlooked. Tim in particular has taken great care of me both with his Aerotech products as well as his recovery equipment. His customer service is second to none in my experience.

Ok Batman, you are correct with the exception of Tim who is BTW a great guys and cant wait to get to hang with him as well as Giant Leap is a great vendor. BUT for the size of reloads and motors we are specificly speaking on in this thread Hobby town doesnt even get those motors. They are not set up with a LEUP or dealers/permit/with the adaquate storeage for 75 and 98mm Motors. In fact they go no larger then 38mm on hand. So lets say you need a motor of this size.. Then guess what if Tim doesnt have it then you will have no other option but to order it and pay the hazmat and shipping. OR you can order any motor from Jim Amos Via AMW and get none of those charges anytime. As well as Jim will deliver!! Now I do wholy appreceate everything that Tim does.. Trust me on that.. In fact a large majority of close to 1k of my money has gone to Giant Leap for my L3 as well as another 500 or so bucks for my Talon4. So I hope Tim and anyone else here does know I do thank them. They are awesome. But if it came down to it for me between a N2000 AT load or the N2020 White wolf .. I chose the White Wolf. Just my preferance as well as its cheaper in cost for a smilar motor..

Good point, Conway. It's not the vendor but the reload. If you prefer AMW, then Jim's your man. Not to mention (okay, to mention), Jim offers an NCR discount on his electronics. I didn't know that and paid full price, but his stuff is ALWAYS worth full price. However, Tim does have a dealer's LEUP and can provide any AT reload needed. We are so lucky to have both. 8)