Of course they can be used at launches. Pro38 and other CTI motors are great. Ask Tim Thomas about them at a launch - he flies them all the time.

They have various advantages and disadvantages compared to AT.

Advantages:
Easy to light - fire up INSTANTLY with the provided igniter
Extreme reliability - never heard of a failure when used as directed
Easy to use - assemble in 30 seconds, clean in a minute. Next to no effort required

Disadvantages:
Less variety than AT - all they have is smoky and white flame
More expensive per newton second than aerotech
No 29mm stuff
Not as visually impressive as AT (IMO)

They're great motors, no question, especially for clusters and staging because of their instant ignition. I still prefer aerotech, but either is a good choice (and I do fly both, just a heck of a lot more of the Aerotechs)

I used to fly a lot of Kosdon stuff, and the reason I did it was pretty simple - if you knew how to assemble a 29mm load, you knew how to assemble a 98mm load (and everything in between). Same assembly steps for every reload every time. I really dislike having to read the AT instructions *every* time because every load is different. Having 4 different sized O-rings is a recipe for a mistake.

CTI has the same advantage, at least for Pro38. Pro54 is very similar as well. I can't speak for the 75mm and 98mm stuff. Cleanup is easier on Cesaroni stuff as well. WAY easier.

As an aside, I didn't really care for the way AeroTech handled some issues after their fire. In fact, I got so aggravated about it that I sold all my "red" hardware, and I almost never fly AT anymore. I really like Cesaroni, and support them whenever I can.

8) Mike, working for Giant Leap I sell both Aero and Pro motors. I personaly use both. Both have great loads. Lets face it, the J350 is simply a badass load. But so is the ProJ330. The Areo hardware cost is a little more, but the Pro loads are little more also. The Pro system is easy to use. Set the delay, twist in the load and you are done. That fast. I have never seen one fail, I am sure they have though. Aero have a lot of parts, if you are carefull you should have no problems. Most guys who have been around awhile have parts of both. If you are going to Cert Level 1 or 2, I would go Pro. They have great prices for Level 1 and Level 2 kits, and ease of loading the motors take the stress level way down. So, I guess you will have to try some of each. One great thing about being in a club like NCR is that the guys are always around to help out. Lots of guys will loan you a case to try a load if you bring it back clean. I have a full set of 38 and 54 cases in Areo and Pro. You are more than welcome to use them. That way you can fly a much wider range of motors. It keeps the cost down. But most of all have fun, see ya at the range.. 8)

Tim introduced me to Cesaroni Pro38's... and they're as simple to use as it can get. I was very impressed and plan to use them more. After my hopeful L3 with an Aerotech M1315, I'm going to move toward Cesaroni's. Tim mentioned that Cesaroni makes reloads that will work with AeroTech hardware. I don't know anymore about this, so, Tim? What's the low-down on that?

I believe CTI 75mm work with AT 75 hardware, and this might be true about the 98's as well...

It's only the bigger stuff, and it sure would make it a lot easier, as the big hardware isn't cheap...

8) Cessaroni Pro75 and Pro98 use crossbrand compatable reloads. They are industry certified in both ProX and RMS hardware. They come with all the parts and rings to fit either case. I have a K510(2gr.) and have the L800(3gr) and L1115(4gr.) on order. They are Pro 75. Because of the great support of Colorado fliers, I have been able to buy a full set of both 75 and 98 hardware from RMS. Anyone may use them, and we have a large pool of reloads from both Aero and Cessaroni that fit them. The main problem with Cessaroni is getting the larger motors in the good ol' US of A. It is a Hazmat thing. We are working on a plan to have Cessaroni bring a whole pile of L and M's to LDRS to save the MAJOR BUCKS it costs to ship them here. More on this at the annuel meeting. 8)

8) As a side note, I have picked up an all glass Vertical Assault that I am going to fly at MHM on an Pro 54 K660. This is a showstopper load. A full K at 2437ns. with a 3.7 burn time. (It makes a max. 245lb. thrust.) I saw one launched over in Utah. What a motor!! I will add tracking, should get way up there. Bruce, what does your simm say? 8)

Why not the new white thunder load?

K1200 or K1440 should kick it nice and hard 😯 8) 😆

Honestly, it should be a great flight. I threw together a quick sim file, and the K660 sims to 13k at 890mph. Peak of 20 gees. You'll definitely want tracking for that one 😀

Bruce, what does your simm say?

Tim, my sim software has gone belly up. Go with Chris' numbers. Chris, is that altitude done with Vertical Assault data, usiing fiber wound fiberglass as the airframe? A K550 will put 'er to ~7500 feet, and it did in mine, 7486 or close to that. A K660... ?

That was a relatively quick and dirty sim.

It may be a bit on the high side, as it is claiming 8300 for K550. The 660 is quite a bit bigger, so I have no doubt it'll go >2 miles, 13k might be a bit optimistic...

How heavy is the fiberglass one - I could make the sim quite a bit more accurate with a good weight...

How heavy is the fiberglass one - I could make the sim quite a bit more accurate with a good weight...

Don't know, my SpaceCAD hit the dirt after Microsoft threw in an XP update. I hate it when they do that! I lose my sound card and other things go splat...
RockSim gives options on airframe materials, doesn't it? SpaceCAD has more than I've ever seen used. It has G-10 and spiral wound fiberglass, a big difference in weight. I've been trying to get SpaceCAD up and running, with the help of the author, for over a week. I need to work on my L3, and it's driving me nuts... or nuts-er. 🙂 And, you're right about the altitude being greater since it's heavier a bit with SW FBG. At LEAST, 10K, if not more. 8)

Yeah it has material options, but to get an accurate weight that way, I have to know things like wall thickness, and I have to sim EVERYTHING. It's a heck of a lot easier to just get the shape right and do a mass override if all you need is a fast sim.

Yeah it has material options, but to get an accurate weight that way, I have to know things like wall thickness, and I have to sim EVERYTHING. It's a heck of a lot easier to just get the shape right and do a mass override if all you need is a fast sim.

Chris, if it's the same as the Thunderbolt 38, and I bet it is, it's 1/16".

OK - I'll try to put together a more accurate sim in a couple minutes then.