Very correct. I think we were lulled into a bit of complacency after we had gone so many years without an issue. In retrospect, we've lived a bit of a charmed life.

In the future, we ALL need to be firemen and we need to be quicker to look for fires after the the occasional errant flight. I think we will be on our feet and a bit more responsive (quicker) next time. BTW, when I say "ALL" of us need to be firemen, I of course mean the adults. I was a bit alarmed to see that there were some younger kids near the fire front yesterday, and on the uphill side of the fire. I asked (OK, I "told") the kids to move up to the top of the hill, where we could see then and they'd be a bit further away from the action.

A learning experience indeed -

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking about fire fighting tools. I'm sure many of you have see those old canvas hunting tents. So if we had a piece of this canvas, even 12' by 12', with 10' drag lines on four corners. We would keep it lay-ed out and presoaked with water. seems to me we could smother a fire pretty fast with this method. I'm no fireman that's for sure, my lungs still hurt today.

David

Glad everyone is OK.
To the owner of the blue dragon, it could have been anyone, i hope your not blaming yourself for what seems to be a group decision.

Canvas under pads was used successfully in model rocketry way back in the very late 50's when it began. That's a good suggestion for pad fires.

All opinions and insights welcomed & No blame/flame throwing allowed. I would have to say that in spite of the almost immediate response to the situation, the fire was faster than we were, and it could have been a lot worse. Earlier squirrely flights and the swirling winds should have heighten our sense of awareness and risk assesment. Fire suppression equipment is and was placed out in the field near the pads where the unexpected problems might arise and it is now clear, more equipment and better positioning of all resources might have made the difference. Additionally, we did have new fire blankets under the pads. Bottom line, in my opinion, we did/do the best we could have done and sometimes that just isn't enough. For the record, seventeen flights, only two of which were High Power.

yeah, i saw those new blankets under the launch pads. I mean we would use the canvas to extinguish fires. 2 guys could grab the guide lines, drag the tarp over the fire, hence suffociateing the fire, and if it were 12' x 12' that would cover a big area fast. just one guys, food for thought.

David

P.S. would have to be wet of course

p.s.s yeah might be to heavy to drag, didnt think about that

I have a few things to throw in. We were not ready for this in mentality and that is what I think got us.

1) In this situation, I feel spotters would have been very helpful. As we know, it took someone a minute or so (that didn't even own the rocket) to spot the fire by the thermals coming up from behind the ridge.

2) In fighting the fire, some techniques worked better than others and it was by pure accident they were realized. I and some others figured out that by using the steel bristled brooms, we could brush the fire back into the burned area and kill it quickly. Instead of sweeping parallel to the fire line. We needed to know what worked and doesn't before we got there. See 5 below.

3) we had 10-15 people who did not help. Barring health reasons, EVERYONE but children should be fire fighters. I have exercised induced asthma, JW as well, both of us managed to help. I was hacking blood half the night. I don't want accolades I just don't want people thinking I'm being a jerk.

4) we need good equipment, enough of it and people that know how to use it. I think we did an awesome job with what we had. But could have used more, no fault of anyone though! How do you prepare for something like this? Overkill comes to mind, but what is the fine line?

5) back to the know how thing. I think we should have 10 or so people that are trained in prairie fire management. I would be willing to contact the fire unit that responded, or the local fire dept and set up a training session for people. I have been to some training classes and saw just how valuable they are. The FS has classes every summer as well.

Lastly.
I would like to set up a 65 gallon water system for the short term and would build a 110 gallon system if OKd by the club. I have the means to weld up just about anything and have most of the steel, axle and tanks to build it. 12v water pumps only run about $35 from Harbor Freight and are simple to use. I personally use one to tx water for my camper.

What do you all think?

I can't say anything because I wasn't there, but I had no idea that a fire unit had to be called out. Was this the worse we've ever had? I had no idea it was so far out. I'm glad everyone is okay.

Several items. One, I am a trained wildland firefighter and was on Indian Peaks Volunteer Fire Department for 8 years. You guys did what you could with the tools that you had. Brushing the edge of the fire-front is key. Paralleling the fire line isn't so good as you found out. The biggest scary thing I heard was that people were out in front of the fireline in the direction it was moving. ALWAYS approach from the burned out area, never get in front of a wind driven fire.

POTROCS has a firefighting trailer with a 500 gallon water tank and a little Honda powered high pressure pump and a garden hose. According to what I heard from Pat Gordzelik, they've rarely had to use it. Size was based on a recommendation from a volunteer fireman. If we had access to a little utility trailer, preferably with dualies, we would essentially be as set as if we had a wildland fire truck with us - they usually only carry 400 or 500 gallons.

At the very least, we should buy 3 or 4 Indian pumps - backpack mounted 5 gallon bladders with an muscle powered hand pump. Running 300 yards with a bullet fire extinguisher is beyond hell - running with an Indian pump on your back is FAR easier.

I think a yearly refresher in fire management would be a good thing for the club to have - perhaps even make it a mandatory part of attending one of our large launches. Say 8AM on Saturday, if you want to fly, you must attend.

Warren

I was surprised to find that the most effective tool was the broom. That knocked the fire front right out along the edges of the burn. Toward the end someone was using water from one of the extinguishers and I couldn't believe how little effect the water had. There was an area of grass that was soaked for close to a minute, the ground was muddy, all the vegetation was glistening wet...and it was still burning.

Looking back at it, we did the best we could, and there were dozens of folks who raced out and gave it their all, a mile or more from the flight line. The conditions just weren't compatible with launching that day. I think the other lesson to take from this, especially if the fire conditions are marginal, is to keep a closer eye on rockets that are having problems, and send someone to the impact area ASAP. When a rocket is a fire hazard that lands far from the pads and our firefighting equipment, that's probably the biggest threat. The rocket that set the fire on Saturday landed in a little depression where it wasn't really visible from the flight line.

Here's an idea of the size of the burn area, for those who weren't there:

I feel partly responsible for at least the extent of the fire. I would like to apologize for not being there earlier. I won't offer any type of excuses because the reason doesn't seem as important now, and it won't change how others or I feel about myself. I would like the chance to make up for it, so.

I started thinking of a trailer mounted unit myself. Today I bought a 275 gallon tote. Which is basically a plastic tank encased in a wire frame. I figure at a 5gpm discharge rate this will give us 55 min of water, which should be sufficient for a weekend launch barring anything major. It should also be light enough to tow with compact truck/car. It will still weight @2000lbs completed. An on-demand pump with a rating of 8gpm @ 60psi should give us the ability to supply 2 hoses with enough pressure to reach out 20 to 30'. I haven't done the hydraulics yet but that should be about right.

I was thinking of using air hose rather then garden, for ease of use. Also they can be pressurized on a reel without creeping or walking. For the pump, gas or electric driven. Gas requires fuel & regular maintenance. Electric requires batteries, and some sort of charging. With the amp requirement of an electric, I'm thinking gas. I have a 5hp horizontal shaft motor I've been saving for a log splitter that will probably never get built. I also have most of the hose, relief valve, pressure switch, and misc piping. I hope to have it completed by MHM 2010.

I can't change what happened, but I can help prevent it from happening again.

Sincerely,

Mark

I just looked at Craigs list, is this what is has been sugested?

http://denver.craigslist.org/grd/1457155530.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/grd/1455943877.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1455305794.html

I lived in So Cal for 11 years, and every October, the Santa Ana winds pick up hot and dry... it's amazing how quickly a fire moves in dry grass and anything else dry... for those who fought it yesterday, that area will be a lot greener than anywhere else on the launch area in the coming years. Firefighters die when the winds shift and they're suddenly in the path of the fire. Exactly what Warren said. Again, I'm glad everyone is safe.

The fire brooms work very well, until they loose their bristles. A friend who is a professional firefighter showed me a couple brooms today that have mechanically held bristles that are replaceable. The bummer was that he made them because nothing was commercially available.

I think we need a few more brooms - after our tools were wearing out the fire dance was getting quite hot on my feet.

Edward