The fire brooms work very well, until they loose their bristles. A friend who is a professional firefighter showed me a couple brooms today that have mechanically held bristles that are replaceable. The bummer was that he made them because nothing was commercially available.

I think we need a few more brooms - after our tools were wearing out the fire dance was getting quite hot on my feet.

Edward

Those brooms sound good. I had some heavy hiking boots that worked pretty well at protecting my feet and smothering the fire... But the then the soles started falling off when the glue melted.

If anyone can come up with a source for the flat bristles, I'd be more than happy to template my friends broom and make a few. The bristles were about 1/16" to 3/32" thick, and were 1/8-3/32" wide. They almost looked like spring type material. We'd need to bend them in half, but that shouldn't be hard.

Edward

Mark,
I have two 1200# torflex axles I will donate to the cause. I can also make the trailer to work around any tank. I think we need to have the club officer's blessings on this since it will probably be stored with the trailer at Larry's and maintained by the club. But, I'm 100% with you. Warren can probably add to this or correct me, but I believe there is fire retardant powder/liquid you mix into the water. I don't think air hose would have the volume required to do anything. We can get hoses on reels that will work good.

Boots only work so long, I got a burn on my left toe enough that it blistered and burst in the boot before I could even get back to my truck. Leather holds heat really well, you should see some of my welding gloves from "checking" to see if stuff is hot....

Edward, I'm wondering if the steel spikes/wires they use to keep birds form perching on stuff would work. I assume you have seen them. My question though would be how old were our rakes and did the fire cause all of the bristles to fall our then, or were they already loose from age????

Good discussion!

I figure the fire burned about 60-70 acres, and ran for exactly a mile before hitting the dirt road (due south wind). We were lucky that the road was there, though we did yeoman's work keeping the sides of the fire in check (the only thing we could have done after the first 5 minutes. A few thoughts-

1) No one was seriously hurt, though I bet all of us were sore, singed, hacking up soot, or otherwise beat. I only saw a few people in front of the flames, and that was right at the beginning when the fire was rapidly growing and maybe it wasn't apparent where the main direction of motion was. Once the flame heights reached 3+ feet, it was clear to everyone where we shouldn't be.

2) Only about half the first 15 people at the fire had a fire tool. The good news is that they could spell people, but we didn't exactly hit it with all we had first thing. I suggest a rack for the fire tools to make it easier to grab and go. A few tools were kinda hidden in the trailer, and many people didn't think about grabbing one (a few training exercises would fix that)

3) Anything we could do to improve response time with tools would make a heck of a difference. If we could have gotten the first 10 people on site 30 seconds faster, and each had a tool, I think we would have put it out.

4) Make use of the older kids by having them shuttling water for drinking to the fire crews. I got thirsty quick.

5) We were lucky to not have vehicles in the fire's path. Maybe we should require that all keys be left in the ignition or on the dashboard so anyone could move a vehicle? I may be over reacting here, but that would be really bad if cars became engulfed, and this year the grass may have been high enough to carry a flame through the ends of the parking line.

6) We'll be getting new fire tools since all but 2 of them are now useless. So we shouldn't have to worry about old bristle brushes for a while. After that episode I wouldn't recommend less than 15 working tools. A few Indian Pumps / Piss Packs would be great as mentioned by Warren.

7) Some FRS radios with a standing NCR emergency frequency may come in handy, especially if we need to evacuate ourselves or others on the prairie. One radio should be on at the LCO table if we are planning to use spotters when conditions warrant.

8) We should listen carefully to the club leadership on how to prevent this in the future, and really respect what the USFS advises us to do. Keep the discussion positive- it could have happened to any of our rockets, and we aren't professional fire fighters.

Chad

Chad is pretty spot on with the estimate. The Wildfire Team from Fort Collins, tasked with the mop up since the other units went to respond to the Briggsdale blaze, told me 64.1 acres according to their GPS of the site.

Everyone that helped in whatever manner needs to understand their efforts are incredibly respected. That no one got seriously hurt or burned is a real blessing and proof that even without "Official" training, we were using the right approach to control and contain. Our range participation and spectator numbers have grown substantially and much of the tribal knowledge and safety briefing information has been rehearsed and rehashed and re-cycled and obviously needs to be repeated more often.

Equipment is replacable - people are not. The fire brooms were originally purchased from the Forest Service several years ago, on their recommedation. They suggested we get two - we bought four. Now we will replace and double that number to eight. The same goes for the flappers.

Keep this discussion rolling. We are all volunteers and leaders.

Folks, I think we are missing the point here. Our fire fighting skills and equipment have been up to the job for at least 12 years. As John Wilke said, "We've been living a charmed life." With this summer's exceptionally long grass, that is true. The problem on Saturday is that we (USFS and us) should have said, "This is not a safe situation, the launch is cancelled." WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO CANCEL LAUNCHES for conditions like these. The RSO (which for all practical purposes is Joe Hinton) makes that call and we MUST abide by it.

as we were short of tools.

The flap tools worked well.

We need a lot more tools. I was really glad I wore a pair of thick soled hiking boots. Some of the people stomping in tennis shoes really were discomforted quickly.

The other thing is that I was far down the flight line busily messing with my rocket and it took several minutes for me to realize what was up.

We need a formalized fire fighting plan including a means to quickly alert everyone. I feel badly that I was tardy in joining the effort.

However, I was amazed that it was put out by everyone's efforts. When I looked up at the end I was equally amazed how far we had progressed from the launch area.

Let's learn from this.

We got there after all the excitement; good job to everyone who hustled and kept the fire from being a lot worse! It was quite a site coming over the top of the hill leading down to the launch site and seeing that big black smudge on the prarie.

As an irregular participant in the launches I'd just say that regular training or at least an explanation of what to do would really help. I think I probably attended half a dozen launches before the need for fire suppression even occurred to me - and to date no one has ever said, if there's a fire, here's what to do. Now a lot of it is obvious but still, not knowing what to do, I might hold back for fear of getting in the way. Even something as simple as a hand-out at the LCO table would clue folks in to the need for fire awareness and being ready to jump in if necessary - and some basic safety info might prevent a tragedy.

My two bits,

Greg

Joe,
What do you think of the water tank ideas?
What about a training session?
I like the backpack water tank idea, what about them?
Radios would make good sense, I like the GMRS ones we clip on and have an ear bud w/ mic. Spotters would be the best use of them though.

I'm personally ramping up for this hobby (now that I'm around) and don't want to loose our use of Pawnee. I want to be proactive on this....

Sorry to hear about the mishap and I am glad to hear no one was hurt.

A couple of thoughts: First off on the bright side, fires are natures way of cleaning up. They can be started naturally by lightning and I can guarantee you next year that fire spot will be the greenest spot the prairie has seen in a long time. The other is the birds nesting is out of season so there should be no issue there.

Not sure what the forest service will do but again this could have been a natural occurrence as well.

That being said I have 5 fire brooms from the old EX group I would be willing to donate to replace and increase the fire fighting equipment.

Did some checking on Wild-lands fire equipment. I'm not seeing the brooms we used. I need some for my property too, wish they were out there still.

5 gallon tank backpack. Cheapest place I could find it, lots of other stuff too.
http://www.benmeadows.com/store/Fire_and_Rescue/Fire_Fighting_Equipment/Wildland_Fire_Fighting_Equip/12323/?s_kwcid=wildland+fire+fighting+equipment%7C3025418278

After chatting with a friend he suggested we try and look for fish tape material if we want to build our own brooms. I thought for a second and I'm sure that is the type of material they use. 1/8" wide x .060" thick, spring material. I'll check with my friend who has the replaceable bristle brooms, but I think it would work. I might have to case a couple pawn shops for cheap fish tapes and test the idea out.

Edward

Did some checking on Wild-lands fire equipment. I'm not seeing the brooms we used. I need some for my property too, wish they were out there still.

5 gallon tank backpack. Cheapest place I could find it, lots of other stuff too.
http://www.benmeadows.com/store/Fire_and_Rescue/Fire_Fighting_Equipment/Wildland_Fire_Fighting_Equip/12323/?s_kwcid=wildland+fire+fighting+equipment%7C3025418278

That would most definitely be an Indian pump. There is another variety though with a rubberized bladder that is a bit more comfortable. The price isn't bad at all. No need to pressurize them either and maintanence is essentially empty them and dry them out, fill them before you need them and check the pump gaskets once a year.

Brooms are a good idea, although I'd think fish-tape thickness spring steel is way to heavy and stiff. 1/3 of that at most.

These are also dependable -

http://www.gemplers.com/product/L485/Solo-Backpack-Sprayer-5-gal-Diaphragm-Pump

they have a pump that you run with your left hand, and a wand you direct with your right hand. They can be bought a lot cheaper than this, and in different sizes. The 5 gallon ones are a bit unwieldy... 4 gallon might be a bit better? They are in most of the farm stores if we want to go look at one, and I may be able to get a deal as I know some folks who sell them.

I was in Jax Farm & Ranch and saw those - they look very nice...add some fire retardant to the water and think they'd work great.

5 gallons * 8.4 pounds/gallon = 42 pounds - we might have to start some training before you attempt to run 100 yards with one of those 🙂

Edward