I have a 25 gallon Polytank I use for spraying aroud my property. Retardant could be added. I put it in the back of my 97' S10 Chevy 4x4. Hook it to my battery, with remote toggle switch. Gets me there, I hold wond out drivers window, or if my wife is around, she drives, I spray. Works fastasically. Also would transport a few people, brooms, and additional fire extingishers. if interested???? Stubby ❓
Here's these but they look like leaf rakes
and flappers
Yep saw these in Alaska, at a hardware store. Very common in rural area stores. They work well, strong. Can't use rubber on flappers of course.
I like these rakes and the wire broom brushes we did have, or kind we kinda have. Few made it back in very good shape when we packed trailer Sat. afternoon.
I also think too, that we all need refresher course from experts, on wildfire prevention and midigation.
Might be able to have a couple classes before next Spring?
Back when we were Tripoli Rocky Mountain, everyone brought out to our launches, a shovel, rake, and five gallons of water. We kinda got away from that requirement since we became NCR. Maybe a thing we should require again? 🙄
Here's just one point: technically we can't use any vehicle on the prairie unless it's on one of the very few designated roads. Unless the USFS says, "If there's a fire, you can use vehicles to get to it." I really don't think they'd allow that; instead, they'd just say find another place to fly. In other words, if we had an army of personal firefighting vehicles that couldn't be driven to where they're needed... why have them? Plus, there is a much greater chance that any vehicle placed near a fire would be engulfed by it. I'm probably missing the point, but anything each of us can't carry to a fire wouldn't come in handy?
We'll probably have 7 years of dry and totally forget this giant conversation by the time there is enough grass for another fire.
Stubby and Bruce raise interesting points. I am reminded of what the Rangers have told us before - our "job" is to do what we can to prevent fires and launch rockets. Their job is to monitor and assist us and the Fire Department is tasked with putting out fires.
In my opinion, for wildfires, rakes are not as useful as brooms. The brooms are used to push the fire line, rakes pull. I've been told it is never a good idea to fight a fire from within the burned area, although that seems contary to the theory of expended fuel and potential fuel and the perceived safest place to be - at least in the case of grass fires.
Fire swatters, I believe, are mis-named. But Fire Smotherer doesn't sound right either although that is their intended use.
I think prevention is the key, and when prevention fails, very early intervention when a possible fire hazard exists would be the best course to prevent this from happening again.
Perhaps a new job we could have during range hours would be a FSO or fire safety officer - Any rocket that goes unstable, CATOs, or crashes would need to be assessed and cleared by the FSO before any further launches were made. I am thinking this may best be filled by some of the older kids at the launch. While I arrived at the range after the fire was out, from the stories I heard, it seemed that if a FSO had run out to the rocket as soon as it was down and had a signal flag or air horn to call for immediate fire assistance, this fire may have not had a chance to spread. Again I wasn't there but it seemed as if one of the main factors that allowed this fire was bad luck, ie the rocket landing in a ravine where the initial fire was not observed, hence a delay in getting to the fire before it started spreading.
So I guess two issues :
Prevention and Vigilance with an eye towards early intervention.
-Sean 💡 💡
I agree w/ Joe and Sean.
Flappers stink, they only push the burning grass into the air space around the clusters of grass. And burn the lungs bad when they catch fire.
Brooms were the weapon of choice. I don't know who it was, but there were two of us with brooms at one point. We were working side by side and covered more ground than believable till I had to drop out. Two in a row crushed the fire, we only had to use a person walking along behind us to step on the smoldering cow pies.
I too feel a FSO would have stopped this, that is what I was talking about when I mentioned fire spotters earlier in this thread. Rotate out people in quadrants, they go to the downed birds and check on them. I know people don't like their rockets picked up, but someone should be able to verify no fire hazard with ought touching the rocket. It's also safer if a deployment charge happened to go off. No touch, just look!!!
I also like the idea of having the air horns, it will get people's attention.
Vehicles on the prairie is a bad idea unless OKd. Long hoses only go so far.... I think our setup should be brooms and backpacks with radio people in the mix. GMRS radios with head sets would be my choice.
Mr. T has a valid point too. I think new members and at the two big launches people should go through an orientation that includes this.
Can you tell I have a desk job??? Sorry if I'm so gabby here, you should meet me in person. 😛
Technically, the RSO is the one who runs the range. When there are monthly launches, there often aren't enough people to volunteer for RSO and LCO, so one person has to do both. And that is humanly impossible. In this case, it's 20 people flying and one or two people doing the work. There has to be more sharing of duties for safety reasons.
Bruce,
I couldn't agree more, and now that I'm a L2, I can learn to become an RSO and would be glad to pitch in. The RSO can help spot fires, keep radio contact with spotters on high fire danger days, lead the fire charge while the LCO shuts down the launch, and help the LCO check for rocket stability on kit mods and scratch builds (as per the club rules).
Chad
Chad, that's the real great thing about this club, everyone can volunteer. When I first joined, and having the experience of new "kids" not being able to join in with the cool stuff until they've proven themselves in other clubs, I assumed that was the way it was with NCR. Not true. Before I knew this, I thought "Man, how cool would it be to get to push the buttons!" You're right, L1 for LCO, L2 for RSO. Period. Now, this isn't getting away from the thread; having people to run things properly and safely is key. This was just a good lesson, and one from which we (even those who couldn't make it) will learn. This really has been a good response from everyone. This club is family. And all the selfless suggestions by everyone shows it. Very cool.
If it comes down to it, mea culpa. I pushed the button. Every launch date is a gamble; a chance the weather won't cooperate, a chance the equipment trailer won't make it, a chance the motor won't light, a chance the stars aren't aligned just right. Risk assesment is a tough position to be in and sometimes the easiest solution isn't the easiest decision to make. But hey, with great responsibility comes great rewards or greater difficulties. I chose to be a rocketeer and meet the challenges with my best foot forward. Left behind or right step forward - moving is progress.
We are all volunteers and I believe in what we are doing.
Once a rocket leaves the pad, no one can know where it goes or what's going to happen. The fact that the fire-causing rocket landed in a gully where it couldn't be seen until a fire had already started... how in do you protect against that? More people? Yeah, but only if enough people are there and able to see each and every rocket. This was the "perfect" storm as far as fire was concerned. As was said up front, no one is to blame. Hey, it's like all those (in my case) L1 failures, you learn and move on.
Thanks To everyone that fought the blaze and everyone that intends to do better next time. Myself on both counts.
Hey RocketWhiz DO NOT harbor any Blame.
Should have,Could have,Would have.
That is how I feel too, and I was there.
The key was to put this out while it was still small.
Having a fire extinqusher was not the answer.
Quicker response may have been.
The GOOD NEWS is,nobody got hurt and we have a lot of smart people that don't want to see this happen again.
Here are my observations (2 cents worth).
1) We are more prepared to fight wildfires than we give ourselves credit for. The Forest Service officer was stomping out the fire with his boots like many of us.
2) We will never be fully prepared to fight a wildfire, We are not a fire department. The key is put it out before it becomes that big. We have done this time and again with simple tools and quick response.
3) There have been many good suggestions on the types of the fire fighting tools that work well and may work even better.
Prepare yourself from the ground up. Leather boots,& Long cotton pants.
Wool socks and leather gloves add a huge level of insulation as well.
4) I propose that in addition to the clubs fire prevention tools positioned around the launch site that all regular members choose your favorite fire fighting tool, bring it to all launches, and be ready to use it. Keep it near your base of operations.
The key is have it handy,easy to run with and simple enough for others to use.
Hi All, After the shock and soreness goes away, reality creeps back in, and common sense hopefully takes over.
We did what we could, and done what we did with this event.
We all learned some things from this fire.
We have done most things right and a pat on the back is granted.
We need to replace the tools and equipment that works best for our stituation and maybe get a few other things that we really should have, and reinforce some good habits.
However, most things we have. Great people, great ideas, and determination to do better.
We could only controll the fire so far, then nature had her way with us, and thankfully the FS persons got there and finished monitoring the bits and pieces.
I don't think we need to spend lots of money and time on fire protection. That's not our job. Pros do that. We pay taxes and fees for it.
We just need to do what we can, with a few changes and some goodies.
Let common sense prevail... Step up volunteer, be vigilant, be safe..enjoy our sport and hobby. Stubby
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