I'm thinking about it seriously. I'm planning my L3 for MHM... if I succeed and the bird survives the flight, I'd like to fly it on an EX N motor at BALLS perhaps. I don't want to stay at Bruno's and I won't camp on the playa unless someone has space in an RV for me.

Warren

and I won't camp on the playa unless someone has space in an RV for me.
Warren

Snakes? 😯

No snakes or animal life to speak of except left overs from Burning Man, which happens a few weeks before BALLS. Mainly it's dust - superfine, alkaline, incredibly pervasive; and wind to blow it around and even through the tightest weave tent fabric.

Bruno's in Gerlach has quite a reputation and uncertain room reservations (he's known to give out pre-reserved rooms if you haven't shown up early enough). Not to that I've been there mind you, but I've heard an endless number of BALLS stories about Bruno's. You will occasionally see a picture of it in the upper right of the web site.

Warren

The dust is invasive, pervasive, abrasive... pretty tough place. It is also the epicenter of our hobby.

Go to http://www.balls17.com/ and click around, especially on "Precautions" and "Serious stuff".

Were I not going to be out of the country that week, I'd be THERE. First time I've missed it in five years. I am going to the playa for Aeronaut August 1-3.

Bruno's can be touch-and-go, but I sure prefer it to staying on the playa. I'm not as tough as some of those other guys 😯

Wow! No Kids allowed? Well, they can count me out and my family who I enjoy the sport with.

Unbelievable! Seems like there would be a better solution to the problem....

Kevin

As the web page says, it is *not* a family enviroment. Motors are EX and sometimes the "E" stands for "ERROR". If you have a R-class hyrbid CATO, you really don't want to have kids around.

The launch administrators are a bunch of rocketeers who realize that very, very, very large EX rockets can sometimes malfunction. Many of us who attend BALLS are supportive of and sympathetic to their situation.

Having been there many times, I'd personally not take one of my own children unless they were perhaps 16 years of age. This isn't a few certified loads being flown within 30 minutes of a couple of hospitals (as is the case w/ NCR).

They tell it like it is -- it is just not a family enviroment. It rubbed me wrong the first time I read it, too. But I totally understand their position after going there myself.

Not to be a spoilsport myself, and I want to emphasize that my comments in no way represent NCR here... BUT, I feel that small children have NO place anywhere that EX propellant and L3 rockets are flying. I've personally witnessed a 50# bird come in on the NCR flight line within 15 feet of a kid who was standing there looking dumb while people were yelling heads up. Of course there were several adults doing the exact same thing. Kids too small to move quickly or understand the danger, adults in wheelchairs or on crutches, the blind or otherwise disabled, all have no place at a rocket launch where significant dangers exist. BALLS qualifies in spades. I'd also include stoner-hippies, zen-masters, and the uninvolved general public in that group.

Warren

Kids too small to move quickly or understand the danger, adults in wheelchairs or on crutches, the blind or otherwise disabled, all have no place at a rocket launch where significant dangers exist. I'd also include stoner-hippies, zen-masters, and the uninvolved general public in that group.

Warren, you have crossed the line. What about mentally handicapped people? The next thing you'll be advocating is that minorities or women shouldn't be allowed on the field. I can't believe you think you would be a good prefect of NCR.

Doug

Doug, no intent to offend here, but I think you're way out of line with your comments and I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from or are taking it too broadly. I was speaking of BALLS specifically and EX launches in general where large motors are present. Also, some of what I said was a joke and I suspect you either didn't take it that way or more likely I didn't express it with the right tone.

I'm only coming from the perspective of potential harm. I've seen some stupid things happen on the range and some near misses that could have been utterly disastorous - as in resulting in someone's death or very serious injury. I'm very concerned when I see crowds of people who aren't paying attention when "heads up" is called. I'm very concerned when a large project core samples into a group of people with some of them completely oblivious until impact. I'm even more concerned when there are people who can't maneuver themselves out of harms way.

To be absolutely clear, I don't in ANY way promote or support any such restrictions at NCR launches except those called for by TRA regs.

What I would do as Prefect would be precisely what is called for by TRA regs - nothing more nor less. I would also make sure that in issues of judgement calls, that I consulted with other Prefects and/or TAP's to ensure that my own personal prejudices didn't influence my call. I show up regularly to launches, participate extensively in the operation of the club and occasionally even build and fly a few rockets. What more is required of a Prefect? This club has had prefects who moved away or didn't show up at any launches. Joe finally took on the job because there was no one else willing or able. I'm only in the running for Prefect because I worry Joe has too much on his plate and I'd like to contribute what I can to the club. I think Conway feels the same way. Thankfully, the club is actually getting big enough that there are choices now instead of just struggling to find someone who is willing to take on the job. I'd say that is a good thing.

Warren

PS: No stoner-hippies, zen-masters or the uninvolved were injured in the production of this message. (By the way, in my flaming youth, I resembled that stoner-hippie comment...)

Not to be a spoilsport myself, and I want to emphasize that my comments in no way represent NCR here... BUT, I don't feel that small children have NO place anywhere that EX propellant and L3 rockets are flying. I've personally witnessed a 50# bird come in on the NCR flight line within 15 feet of a kid who was standing there looking dumb while people were yelling heads up. Of course there were several adults doing the exact same thing. Kids too small to move quickly or understand the danger, adults in wheelchairs or on crutches, the blind or otherwise disabled, all have no place at a rocket launch where significant dangers exist. BALLS qualifies in spades. I'd also include stoner-hippies, zen-masters, and the uninvolved general public in that group.

Warren

Well after I saw a few rockets come in balistic, I decided it to be the most dangerous thing about the sport. In December, mine did the balistic thing, and nun of us ever saw it. Any body out there was nun of the above, we would not have had a chance if it came in at the wrong place. I guess Im a bad parent, as I will still put my kids on an Air Plane, put them into aCar (with seat belts of coarse) and even ride in Cessna 172 with me. And guess what even let them still come to rocket launches. There are alot of things that are dangerous in life,but the biggest one is walking out the front door!

Scott e
ps doesnt mean I endorse stupidity!! 🙂

Folks,

Even though I haven't been to BALLS I can understand and respect what they are saying. BALLS is a lot different then any others launch though. How many launches have any or most of the people attended where they fly all metal construction . Minimum diameter. Motor sizes where Q has become the average and rockets that weigh a few hundred lbs.... Only at BALLS. And sometimes all the above are just one rocket. So I would agree with what they are asking and I would not be offended. Besides the rocketry issues there are also natural ones there as well. It is a desert. Hot. Blowing sand storms. Land that looks dry but is a quicksand pit waiting to happen and more...

Now with that said. I would take my Daughter of almost 16 years of age to BALLS. Not only do I feel she is old enough, and smart enough, but she has been around rocketry since the days when JW was President at PHITS, James nor myself were L2 yet, and Art was still flying Estes. 😉 and for those of you that don't know... thats along time... Shes been around a lot and seen quite a bit of crazy stuff happen. Heck she herself has mixed motors from beginning to end with minimal help from me. As well as helped James and myself make O motors and N motors and more.. So there are circumstances that can make differences...

Anyhow Warren, I hear what your saying and understand your concern, but I also see what Doug is saying as well (and read it and was a bit caught off and offended you might be discriminating) and really you talked about what happened at NCR events and those involved with no mention of BALLS till the end so I can see how one might see it different then you possibly meant. With that said, It is not our place to discriminate in any way who can attend what where. They can be informed and made aware the risks they take are of their own will. Following TRA rules with Research is fine. But again if im a TRA L2 flyer thats in a wheelchair and I show up I still have every right to be there as I meet the criteria.

As far as my reasons for running for prefect seeings how you mention... Well lets just say Not just because Joe has to much on his even though he does and my hats off to the man. But People in this club or any club should find it upon them selfs to provide for the future of their club and hobby by serving it as those before them donated of their service and time to you. I wish to give back to all those that have payed forward for me and others to enjoy and learn of the hobby by giving my time and service to its members as a TAP and a Prefect. But those are my reasons. As well as I want to see Joe go L3 and fly some freaking rockets!!! along with other Exec members...

BTW Warren, you better hope this comment doesn't get amended into the rules..... They may not let you fly rockets anymore.... 😆

WMusselman wrote:

"I'd also include stoner-hippies"

Just Kiddin...

Thanks

Conway

This mentally challenged flyer has yet to make it to BALLS but would take my son (16) without pause because he's really only interested in the flights that don't survive as planned. Waverly loves the thrill of failures. Like they say, the nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

This mentally challenged flyer.............. .

Hmm.. nice to know officially im not the only one 😯

Wow. ok Metal rockets + Huge engines = Power and pounds. I understand a bit more now. Never attended anything like BALLS and didn't realize the differenece in danger even after reading their website. I agree with the comments above and the theory behind their decisions. Maybe spelling out an age limit might be a helpful on their website and specific reasons other than irresponsible parenting. A simple explaining like someone made above about kids getting distracted and not paying attention to "Heads Up" calls would suffice. I saw a rocket come down pretty close to some young kids at Ocktober fest that was a bit scary.

Is LDRS a similiar situation? I was trying to get the Boy Scouts to turn it in to a campout since it was so close this year, but won't if you advise otherwise.

I still plan to have the Boy Scouts come to MHM. They are helping me rebuild my Lvl 1 Cert rocket with a BSA theme in hopes to get more boys interested. The whole troop did get their Merit Badge this year and have decided to make regular model level launches part of their regular yearly planning.

Anyway guys, sorry about my lack of information and quick judgement.

Kevin 😯