When I was in high school I used to go to some of the local elementary schools in Houston and spend two afternoons building and flying rockets, so I have a little experience at it. Last year I bought a couple of the Estes Alpha III kits with the plastic fin can. I built them in thirty minutes following the instructions, and I went slow; so that is the rocket I would recommend building. I went to the owner of Hobby Town and he was willing to help in the rocketry outreach. My snag came when I tried to find a place to launch. It is illegal to fly anything over public property in the City of Fort Collins. I could not even get them to talk to me at Parks and Recreation for a permit. Yes I could have just done it, but if the police should show up and they would have the authority to do so, they could write citations to all of the adults involved and the children too. That sure would take a fun event and turn it into a disaster. I went to the Poudre School District and I was told they do not allow the flying of toy rockets or fireworks on their properties due to fire danger. I fought to go up the chain of command, but it was taking more work than I had time to pursue.

Jack, that is my experience here in Fort Collins. If the principal can get permission to fly, go for it. Let me know the details and I will see if I can participate.

BEAR

I have in possession several dvds from Joe that are from MHM of several years ago. That might work for the video portion.

In my school, I run a rocketry program for 6-8 graders on twelve Fridays. We (Houndogger and I) were planning to launch last Friday but that winter storm on Thursday night shut us down. Reschedule is looking like next week. For your launch, if the principal can deal with the municipal party poopers, Houndogger has his great launch system that makes everything a lot safer and efficient.

For the past three years, I have done rocket builds with 3 and 4th graders; encouraging them to read the instructions and work cooperatively to "figure it out". That seems to work fairly well with some guidance and encouragement. We never started or built from the ERX type stuff, but with the slotted airframes and fin sanding. My groups are always between 10-15 kids.

Reading about your lesson plan, I guess that I have to pitch in my two cents worth:

Our Charter school methodology is somewhat counterintuitive to more traditional curriculum presentations. Here's what I mean by that:
I would never start out with an "introduction to 4th grade physics". We teach from the "whole to the parts". Kids would start by building rockets and through that process, they would arrive at questions about physics themselves. goofy fins mean goofy flights. After the fact (the launch), they will be more able to comprehend the necessity of good building techniques and simultaneously be able to mentally image the flight path with its pitfalls and successes. It is only after the first person experience of the activity do we begin to provide the means for them to answer their own questions about what they experienced and provide them through basic concepts of physics possible explanations.

btw, I have never shown a video to a child without having had that child experience a launch live and in person first. I look for the "AHA" moment of wonder in the experience before presenting videos of rocket flights. The emotional connection to the launch experience is stronger in person than in a video. Then, after the initial excitement, their intellect is more accessible to comprehending basic physics.

Four weeks? that is tough to build without using the shake and bake kits. At least you gotta let the kids paint their own rockets to individualize them.

sorry for the length, but as a teacher who always has a great time with rockets in the classroom and is very passionate about keeping a lesson "alive", I have to ramble a bit!

Let me know when you want to launch. I have a 8 port launch system so you can stage 8 at a time. You can also drag race up to 8 at a time if needed. It also allows more control of the area as you are the holder of the master key.
Let me know, just send me a PM.

Kevin

Bear - thanks for the heads up on the municipal constraints - I'll talk that over with the principal and see if he has any connections or procedures to get the appropriate approvals.

Dave - I like your ideas and obviously you have 'boots on the ground' experience to know what works. Depending on how we clear the regulatory hurdles, I'll reconfigure the plan to incorporate your suggestions.

Kevin - Definitely will contact you if we pull this together... putting multiple birds in the air at once certainly is more exciting and more efficient.

All - Thanks for all the advice and offers of help, I'll discuss approvals and schedule with the principal and get back to you.

I found the FC Municipal Code that Bear pointed me to,, and had a nice exchange with Sam Aldern, Principal at Beattie Elementary. Asked him if he had any expedited way to get the 'operational permit' required. Bottom line - we'll look into this for next year...

Hi, Jack –

Sam Aldern
Beattie Elementary, Principal

As long as we're thinking long term - it occurs to me that another way to do this is to do an end run around the whole FC permit process and build in a field trip to our early May launch for these kids. I haven't talked to Sam,, but this way we follow Dave's suggestion of getting the kids right into the creative process of building rockets the first two weeks (last two weeks of April). They come out and spend the day launching and watching,,, and then the final hour we have them talk about what they saw and what they learned. It would have worked great this year, since we have a 3-day event and the field trip could be scheduled on the Friday. Maybe a Saturday field isn't out of the question next year, with some planning. Thoughts anyone?

I am looking at private property that is big and open. There are some parcels on east Harmony before you get to the interstate, on the south side of the road, down by Zieglar Rd., here in Fort Collins. My thought is to talk to the land owner and see if he/she would be willing to allow us to fly rockets. If necessary to close the sale, I show up with rockets and fly some for them so they can be more familiar. Just my thought process and have not started working on it.

Visit the NAR site and find the info regarding available insurance coverage for land owners that provide a space port. I had it earmarked but now can't find it. But the NAR will provide coverage for launches conducted by members as long as the safety code is followed.

BEAR,

What about the land near the gravel pits on Strauss Cabin (east of Zigler and Horsetooth) They have a huge berm built up from the excavation and I think you could fly on the west side and be well screened and safe. Does the cement plant own that land?

Edward

Yes. Western Mobile owned the land the last time I looked. They have not been real friendly to allow other people on the property because of liability in the past. That may have changed that mindset, but I tend to think not. I think that is true of both sides of Horsetooth between Ziegler and Strauss Cabin Trailhead. Those are mining operations where they are scraping the surface off tho get to the minerals, and so they look at the site as being inherently dangerous due to the top soil/gravel/rock being unstable and not packed. They do not want to be sued, so they say no to everything so they do not get into that position. I keep thinking of the farmland further south on the other side of Harmony near the new high school. I tend to think an individual is easier to deal with than a bureaucracy.

Jack, if you don't already have a copy of it, I'll send you my NCR 2007 DVD, which has about 18 minutes of Doug Gerrard's spectacular slow-mo film, both on-board and on-ground. PM me with your address and I'll mail it to you.

Dave