Kyle, I think we can get in the air by MHM as long as my work doesn't interfere too much, and as long as you get all your homework done 😉 I'll get with you in the next few days so we can finalize everything. I vote for an AMW L1300 for our first boost?

If we go w/ a 38mm dart, then we can just load up one of my existing rockets with lead (we need to add a tailcone, too!) but you still need to do all the work on the booster! The interstage coupler will take about a month or so to get done.

Are we going to let your dad help us? Maybe we can talk him into doing all the sanding 😮 Or perhaps he'll go fetch it? Ha!

Can you say Nike Apache?

I've been drooling over the Performance Rocketry kit.

HAHA a nike apache would be cool I guess but going through the work to get demensions and all that = more time. John i have no practive tommarow ill have time at about 1:00

By the way, I'm thinking of turning my dart out of stainless steel pipe. with a solid stainless nosecone.

Warren, that would take it into Amatuer Rocketry, far away from TRA or even EX TRA( ❓ ). BUT the key to a dart is accelerating the mass of the dart. Dude, that'd do it! 🙂

It would not be a problem at any TRA Research launch I know of - the safety code is written to say that basically if metal components are required for the bird to perform as specified, then metal can be used.

I have done quite a bit of research on boosted darts and already have design for a machined dart and all carbon and honeycomb booster that will surely break any waiver NCR ever will have on an M motor. Chris LaPanse rightly pointed out that the standard Loki Dart - a 7.5# and 38mm dart will hit 230,000' on a full N (9,000 nSec x 1.8 Seconds) with booster deployment somewhere above the current NCR waiver of 20,000'. I'm thinking of a 100% scale Loki Dart with a booster section with a removable motor mount. With the mount in, you fly 54mm motors - with the mount out, you fly 75mm motors. Before I do something like that, I want to work out a video transmission system.

Warren

Warren, that is cool! 🙂

The motors you guys are referencing were very specific motors, though - with elaborate thrust curves, etc. There was also a research group out there that routinely flew M's w/ ~1kg payloads to over 100K. I don't think that with off-the-shelf motors we can expect to pop something to 40 miles AGL, nor can we expect to triple the current TRA "M" record. If it were doable, there are guys in TRA who'd have done it...

I personally believe the most astounding and unreachable TRA record now is the M -- something like 34-35K. That is an amazing boost.

BTW, I was surprised to read that the "real" Loki boosters went unstable after the dart escaped?!?!? That would be interesting... something that big and fast starting to tumble. Whattamess!

No recovery plans for those boosters either... they just came straight in - ideally tumbling or spinning, but ballistic as well.

Warren

Knowing and witnessing that JW went 23K plus and into the four-mile club last year, what is the altitude record for NCR? Just curious... and how high can NAR members go towards the 30K waiver? Was it 25K?

John Wilke still holds the maximum NCR altitude record with his L shot at MHM last year - 23K+. We're hoping to significantly increase that record this year. I have an L bird and if I get around to doing my L3, we might have an N bird that will put a hurting on it.

Warren

Good to know, Warren. Thanks. We have that altitude limit.... might as well reach for it. 🙂

Hmmm. I know a little someone that will try his best at increasing that number as well.. N motor did you say.......

Speaking of N motors, there are NO official NCR altitude records for that impulse class. Since you and Art are the only ones who have flown N motors at NCR launches, one or the other of you should put in for an altitude record.

Warren

I have an L bird and if I get around to doing my L3, we might have an N bird that will put a hurting on it.

Warren

C'mon in, the water is fine 🙂

I'll say this... it has been really hard for me to eclipse 20K. I got parts up there three times, all without clean recovery. Then last year I had some luck and actually made it over 20K three times, all with perfect recovery.

The sims are not nearly as trustworthy when you get up there, either. My L rocket simmed to almost 30K, and the three times I flew it, I got similar results, the best being the 23,404' at the N site. The K250 I had simmed to 25K and I got 20,716'.

I'm curious how many clean recoveries we've had over 15K out there?

Well, JW, I'm sure we'll have a number of attempts this year, and we can keep track of them. 🙂 Just a few quick points... why didn't the Loki darts use cones instead of ogives? Cones are ideal at the many times Mach that bird had to fly. And, why four fins instead of three... four fins add more drag than three? Of course, with the Judi or Loki Super boosters, I guess they really weren't trying to optimize things. They had enough power at hand. Of course, adding that extra fin cuts down on the fin span (drag) needed for each. John, with what you said about sims... you're right. You can calculate all you want, but once the fire is lit, a rocket is gonna do what it's gonna do. 😉