I have strong feelings on the subject, in essence: putting the worlds future in the hands of morons with no scientific knowledge, background or experience, who more often than not are trolling for votes and try to curry votes by playing to these sentiment/fears in poorly though out bills, or worse yet distort, displace it with pseusoscience or ignore it completely; well its our future.

We just got sideswiped by such a phenomenon for commercial motors, and many would prefer to keep EX under the radar. For the record I owned a couple of chem sets as a kid, never managed to blow anything up much to my disappointment. Are pyros made vs born--at four I was collecting the charcoal or what i reckoned was such off matchheads, and knew the rough percentages of BP recipes? Did I succed, not a chance, but more importantly had my parents said NO or forbade me from looking at my dads anatomy books, might just have lost interest entirely in science.

Hell, before I discovered rocketry, I was a little basement bomber myself... making matchhead rockets in thin aluminum pipe at the age of 8... We ignited them by heating the aluminum pipe with a propane torch... didn't know anything about nozzles though... of course then I saw ads for Centauri and Estes in Boys Life and was hooked on the right way of doing it.

This is a horrible thing... first the liability issue and now CPSC trying to nanny us into idiocy... there is no gain without risk, no learning without failure, no success without freedom and a little bit of pain.

Warren

I received my first chemistry set when I was eight (back in 1961). I still collect old chemistry sets, oldest one from the 1920's. HAD TO EDIT WHAT WAS HERE ON MY FIRST POST DUE TO THE MORONIC, PARANOID MOOD RAMPANT IN OUR COUNTRY, VERY SAD, FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS GONE NOW, TOO--READ THE ARTICLE, CAN'T BELIEVE UNITED NUCLEAR WAS TARGETED I, too, saw ads for Estes and Centuri rockets back in the 60's and have been shooting them ever since. Definitely, the safer alternative. Preferred Centuri because they were stronger. Anyway, before that, I'd spend my summers using potassium nitrate and various fuels, mostly sugar. I'd experiment with different things. I grew up in a small town and went to the family pharmacist and asked for it, uh, for the neighbor's dog. 😀 Neighbors didn't have a dog, by the way. That didn't go on for long, so my Dad had to intervene. I'd go through 3-4 pounds of the stuff over a summer. Made my own fireworks, bottle rockets, fountains, etc. I have an old Zeiss-lensed microscope (I have this thing for pond scum), a 10" SCT telescope and bunches of ground support equipment for it, an electronics lab... It's what makes me tick; it's what makes me me. I need to know the how's and the why's of things hands-on. I'm just curious. I can't imagine keeping the real world from children of today. Someday when I have grandkids, you'd better believe they're going to get hands-on science when they come to visit, even if I have to collect potassium nitrate naturally from caves, or mix gunpowder with water to remove the KNO3, burn willow bark for charcoal, and get sulfur samples from rock shops, or, hell, go to Yosemite and get it for myself! None of this virtual stuff. I still smile at potassium permanganate and glycerin. 😀 Guess that'll be just a memory in a short time. Any government or society that takes that away is no longer free, or worthy of having good, inquisitive, and inventive citizens. No wonder other countries are surpassing us in technology. How many von Brauns are we losing to real free countries out there? Or even worse, how many are we turning away from science? If all of this is because of terrorism... then the terrorists have already won. I guess I have strong feelings about this, too. I haven't been this upset or sad in a very long time.

Okay, okay, I've been accused of being a curmudgeon by my Mom, like Andy Rooney. Not once did I say... "did ya ever notice...?" Regardless of our respective ages, we must respect our parents. She says things will loosen up after the terrorism threat eases. Personally, I believe that once you give up certain freedoms, they're impossible to get back. But that's just me, curmudgeon or not.

Ahhh yes Playing Mad Scientist in my parents basement with the HUGE lab kit I got for Christmas when i was a kid. Was probably only about 8 or 9. That was about the same time I really got into rocketry as a kid. I definitly agree that taking away all this very cool stuff is bad for the development of our youths potentials. The problem Lies in that the majority I like to call the sheeple (like people but sheep) call upon the mighty law makers and rights takers to protect them from anything that can go Boo or may be not PC or could be oh no not safe. What these people dont realize is that they themselfs are to blame for any inccidents that happen cause they dont get involved the right way in their kids life. yea a chem set may be unsafe or so can a rocket. BUT thats where supervision from the parent comes in. And I agree that once you start giving up those rights they just keep heading that direction and they are pretty well impossible to get back because of the knee jerk what if people and lawmakers out there. But for me on a positive note My daughter just had a graduation from the 8th grade (ohhh no a High Schooler now!!) and not only did she pass she did it on the Honor role with a very high A+ B grades But she was one of 5 kids of the 130 to graduate to recive the honor of the Presidents Award only given out to kids that show specific interest and extreme abillity in specific subjects. Her's was Science!!!. Well now off my soapbox and proud parent Speach.. lol

Conway

But for me on a positive note My daughter just had a graduation from the 8th grade (ohhh no a High Schooler now!!) and not only did she pass she did it on the Honor role with a very high A+ B grades But she was one of 5 kids of the 130 to graduate to recive the honor of the Presidents Award only given out to kids that show specific interest and extreme abillity in specific subjects. Her's was Science!!!. Well now off my soapbox and proud parent Speach

You have every right to be proud! I did the same with my daughters, both have science degrees, and the younger is going back this fall for a masters in geology. And, my older daugher still has her purple Big Bertha she made in the 80's. 😀 But, hey, look who our kids had as dads? 😀

But for me on a positive note My daughter just had a graduation from the 8th grade (ohhh no a High Schooler now!!) and not only did she pass she did it on the Honor role with a very high A+ B grades But she was one of 5 kids of the 130 to graduate to recive the honor of the Presidents Award only given out to kids that show specific interest and extreme abillity in specific subjects. Her's was Science!!!. Well now off my soapbox and proud parent Speach

You have every right to be proud! I did the same with my daughters, both have science degrees, and the younger is going back this fall for a masters in geology. And, my older daugher still has her purple Big Bertha she made in the 80's. 😀 But, hey, look who our kids had as dads? 😀

Thanks!!!! Danielle and I are very excited to get back into the rocket rage again. she is going to be doing her Jr. L1 on her BSD 3" Thor. Me I just got a big box of parts for my L3 rocket today. I could only hope that here eagerness and abillities has been due to some of my influnce as a Dad!!!

Hopefully you're feeling up to snuff Conway... hoping to see you Saturday. When I met you a couple years ago, you were selling off all your rocketry stuff and I was just getting into it as a new BAR... If we weren't so close to a fire ban, I'd burn something in the AMW motor case you sold me on Saturday, but since all I have for that case is a Skidmark load, we're going to have to wait on that. Instead I'm either or both going to burn an AT K550 and/or a Loki K250 Moonburner.

Warren

Oh there is no about about being up to the task this weekend. I am so excited about it i cant even begin to say the words.. But beings that I am still waiting on my all glass Talon 4 to arrive and I just got the parts for my L3 project all I have to fly is a measly lil Endeavor to fly on some H motors. LOL. BUT its fun no matter how big. I cant wait!! Now Im not sure about making the Saturday launch but I will definitly be at the CERG following that. If I go out saturday it will be in the morning and probably to say hi to those I havent seen in a while. But either way this weekend I am flying a rocket!!! Be it Saturday or at the CERG flight.

My plan is to be out there Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night and at least until 11 or 12 on Sunday.

Warren

Its a shame Denver/metro has no place like the Bay Area's Exploratorium--it was great to see kids of all ages so absorbed by the 100's of hands-on exhibits--my schedule only allowed 3 hours there, but could easily have spent 12... Great stuff, a must do in the SF area.
John S

PS: Haven't seen Body Works yet at the denver museum but hear thats well worth the trip!

Yeah - I spent over 8 hours at the exploratorium and could have spent a week. I wish denver had something comparable. Oh - and for anyone who hasn't seen it, Body Worlds at the denver museum is DEFINITELY something to see. Great exhibit.

Speaking of moronic, I just re-read my knee-jerk reaction to that article. Geez Louise... You know, all this is Don Herbert's fault, for opening up the eyes and minds of children in the 50's and early 60's with his Mr. Wizard show, in black and white. He came back in the 80's, so my older daughter ('bout the time she built her purple Big Bertha) and I could watch when she got home from school. Good memories there. And, yes, freedom of speech is alive and well; it's just that there is also an implied responsibility in what you say. There are good sources for honest and cool chemistry on the Internet, but there are also some who issue "handbooks" with information that is incomplete and just plain dangerous because the information is wrong. Okay, the subject is the degrading of chemistry sets through the years. This isn't because of terrorism; this is something that's evolved steadily over the years. Even my first chemistry set, a Porter Chemcraft, didn't have any potassium nitrate in it. However, their earlier ones did. And at the time, my friend had a Gilbert set that had some. Beside the point. I'm sure the CPSC thinks they're doing the right thing. They mean well. Most of the fun chemicals that have been removed have been removed due to cancer-causing properties and heavy metals, etc. I'm just glad that I was able to show my two daughters the fun of chemistry when we lived in California. I could buy chemicals from a merchant who sold to schools, universities, and Mr. Wizard himself! They were friends. That was so cool. The guy's name was Ira Katz, a pretty well-known chemist in the area; he created a lot of the spectacular pyrotechnics in movies. He passed away last year. He and I used to get into it when he wouldn't sell me certain chemicals. He'd say, "You get a license, and I'll sell it to ya." I worked near his store, and this guy knew so much. I learned a lot from him. Great way to spend a lunch hour. As far as United Nuclear, they sell in small quantities. No one is going to do any damage to anyone, except themselves, with the small amounts of chemicals they sell. I certainly would hate to see the company go down. I will also admit that they sell some chemicals that I wouldn't buy. I know better and have no use for them. But they should be able to sell them in small amounts to whomever they please. It's a shame there isn't a good Nerd lobby, like the NRA for guns. 😀 This is similar to the knee-jerk reaction with guns. Hey, we'll get rid of all the chemicals! It's just misguided. People who want to do bad things are not going to use exotic, easily traceable chemicals. I grew up in a small farming town in Southern Illinois. Every farmer had ammonium nitrate (now made infamous by Timothy McVeigh) in their barn, for its intended use... fertilizer, for goodness sakes. Yes, if they had a stump to remove, they knew how to use it for that. It's a pretty crappy oxidizer though. I used it to show my kids its endothermic properties, which is, uh, cool. Anyone who's used a Coldpak activated by breaking a container of water inside has done the same thing. Should anyone be allowed to buy hundreds of pounds of any chemical that can be hazardous or used to do real harm? Of course not! That's another issue. The government has every right to know who's buying what in those quantities. Guaranteed it's not for well-intended, scientific purposes, unless it's a university or legitimate farmer for ammonium nitrate.

So I apologize for my previous posts. My nephew left for his second tour in the Middle East last Thursday--this time Afghanistan, and I'm as proud as I am worried about him. I guess I'm just upset about politicians stepping on what I mistakenly perceived as taking away freedoms while members of my family (or any family) are going away to defend those freedoms. His dad, my brother-in-law, goes in August. So I'll at least get to see him before he goes back, too, over the 4th of July. That's why I won't be at a July launch, if there is one. The cost of freedom is never cheap. My reaction is also probably a latent reaction to the attack on our hobby, a hobby that has saved many hands, definitely mine had it not come along, and allowed good, fun science to thrive. No more of this, back to rockets! Sorry.

Persnally, i see no forgiveness as necessary--there are plenty with good intentions doing the wrong thing and the attack on the fireworks industry by the group in question is IMHO, misguided. Most of the accidents occurring are by drunks not using the products as intended--so should all fireworks be removed from the market ? Methinks not. Boating causes lots more deaths/serious injury per year.

Whether external or internal forces are a greater threat to our freedom is an open question in the very least:

to avoid any political debate, i would simply suggest that we all need to exercise continual vigilance from the encroachment of any right, including buying "potentially" dangerous compounds (not mercury, not high level carcinogens where proper disposal is critical) or even wearing the t-shirt of your choice. 🙄
JS