I finishied my Mad Dog. Ready to go up on a K. It will be my first with
working redundant charges and dog collar. I have built a couple with
redundant capability but never had the electronics to operate them.

Most done with one I will call 'Midnight Express' or 'Foo Two' 😕

K for the center and two Js that will be air started. Should be cool.

https://picasaweb.google.com/mshinn2001/March122012#

Looks great Mike .. love them clusters! Those are some serious fins too .. you going to glass them and the body?

When's it flying?

Steve

I finishied my Mad Dog. Ready to go up on a K. It will be my first with
working redundant charges and dog collar. I have built a couple with
redundant capability but never had the electronics to operate them.

I always use twins for rudundantcy. But! I was very suprised when the "Wilkster 3 Dog Man" told me he uses a single and I think he said he always has for the most part! 😕 Ask him.

Yeah, John has always been a single altimeter guy. Shocked me when he TAPped my L3. Back in the day you could do your L3 with a single altimeter, but no more. Redundancy is a requirement now.

When we did the large group project, The uprOar - we flew a single Perfectlight Hi-Alt 45K. Worked flawlessly. I was still nervous - I fly redundant altimeters, redundant charges and sometimes redundant e-matches.

Nicely done, Mike! I like big fins with higher power. I have this nightmare of a rocket with the highest power not being stable. 😯

I will have fillite reinforcement, a couple inches up and out but
that is it.

It will not be going fast.

Hope it lands well

Yeah, John has always been a single altimeter guy. Shocked me when he TAPped my L3. Back in the day you could do your L3 with a single altimeter, but no more. Redundancy is a requirement now.

When we did the large group project, The uprOar - we flew a single Perfectlight Hi-Alt 45K. Worked flawlessly. I was still nervous - I fly redundant altimeters, redundant charges and sometimes redundant e-matches.

I dont know, as Lucky Lindy said, "If I had two engines, I would be in danger of having two engines quiting, instead of just one" 😉

is the redundancy thing necessary for my L2 cert? I am building a 4"PAC3. I just managed to finally scrape up the $ for ONE electronic thingy. I still have to learn how to get the thing installed, before I can begin dreaming of figuring out how to arm it.

is the redundancy thing necessary for my L2 cert? I am building a 4"PAC3. I just managed to finally scrape up the $ for ONE electronic thingy. I still have to learn how to get the thing installed, before I can begin dreaming of figuring out how to arm it.

Hey Dave .. if you come out Sun bring what have so far and you can get a bunch of good advice on setting up your electronics in the 4" bird .. a number of very experienced min dia guys should be there.

I have 4 or 5 RRC2's (electronic thingies) if you want to borrow one to setup, or look at setting up, dual altimeters. You can use it for the flight as well.

Steve

I am most intimidated by building the av bay and the sled for it. After that, yeah,.... then I gotta work on the building the charges, right amounts, etc. I am thinking of grabbing the L@ cert first with a "slow and low" motor ejection set up.

Dave, I acquired my L2 last year and I am actively working on my L3. I used an Intimidator 3 for both my L1 and L2 flights. I did not fly it with electronics at all. My reasoning was that I am growing in experience, and can quickly get too complicated for my abilities. So I flew it low and slow. Adequate to get the certification, but not pushing the envelope for the certification flight. I still ended up having issues like a rail button snapping off or a kevlar cord getting tangled. I did get the flight and my L2 card though. Now at the strong suggestions of some TAPs, namely John Wilke, (who currently declines the TAP status) James Russell, Art Hoag, and Mark Lionberger, (see, redundancy even in TAPs!) I am building an Intimidator 4, 4" glass rocket. The idea is to get the L3 bird design, schematics, drawings, parts lists, etc., approved for build; then building with lots of photos being taken so I can e-mail them to the TAPS and they can see the build along the way, and then prepare to fly. When I fly, it will have the electronics in place, ejection charges operational, prepared for dual deploy, and then I plan on flying it a number of times on Js, Ks, and Ls, to get the experience, just as John, James, Art, and Mark have suggested. When I have successfully flown in that configuration a number of times, using dual deploy, all I am really doing is taking what I have already done before, and doing it again, only this time it is a bigger motor, and M, and I have special observers allowing the flight and buying off on it. I am not doing anything new.

I can get as complicated as the next guy, but on flights that really count, the KISS method is the one I follow. Keep It Simple Stupid! Try not to do too many new things in your flights. they will get complicated enough, quickly enough as it is.

Come on out to the Proton M build and get involved and talk and ask questions and partake. You will be able to learn alot. Just think about how complicated the Proton M is. Not only is Steve and the team building a large rocket that will fly with 10 motors on the first flight, it has 3/4" plywood centering rings, and 2 X 4s for an internal structure, it has ways to dissasemble for transport. It has to have electronic to fly. The 3 main motors fire first and once the elctronics sense movement, it will fire the outside 6 motors. When they fire and it is flying, a tilt-o-meter is monitoring vertical movement and whether or not the rocket is drifting from vertical. If that is all OK at burnout of the booster, then explosive bolts will fire releasing the stages, so that the sustainer will fire and go on in the flight. After that happens, the ejection charge goes off to blow a cover so the parachute can come out on the booster. The second stage is still going, and it has it's own altimeter and dual deploy set-up. If a third stage is flown, all of that is repeated again. Come see how it is done. In the mean time, take your baby steps and work up to it.

When you were learning how to drive, you would almost hit the brakes while you were looking in the rear view mirrors before you could turn or change lanes. You were probably a danger to society. But now, with practice, experience, and coordination you can drive on the interstate at 75 mph, change radio stations, change lanes, get angry at the fool you just passed, while talking about rockets to someone on the phone and eating your Big Mac and sucking down a Coke. You are just trying to work up to that, so KISS! 'nuff said?

I am glad that what you are saying about KISS is what I was thinking anyway. I have a couple of birds with successful, error free flights already to brag about.

I am planning to join the Proton crew tomorrow. I'll be there with bells on!

I am glad that what you are saying about KISS is what I was thinking anyway. I have a couple of birds with successful, error free flights already to brag about.

I am planning to join the Proton crew tomorrow. I'll be there with bells on!

That's definitely the better way to go for 'most'. Though some just really like to go for it! Ask Warren about his Cert process .. no KISS there .. 🙂 but he made it to the top, so all roads eventually lead to the same place. You can still put the altimeter in w/o an actual event .. it'll get your altitude and show you it worked.

I did motor ejection only for my L2 also. I regret that a little bit, because I kinda rushed into the certification, so much more that I have now learned on F, G, H and I motors. The electronics aren't hard, but there is so much to think about when getting L2 ready, and just have taken the test, and so on.

I highly recommend a DIP switch based RRC2 or MAWD for simplicity. The DIP switches are easy to check and be sure you know what you have set. The new electronics have menus and some require computers, which can give you more things to screw up on cert day. RRC2-mini is a fine little deployment control, but the buttons and blinky light codes take me FOREVER to verify.

Take your time, Keep It Simple, don't rush yourself or get "Go Fever". I flew my L1 first try... but it took me 5 tries to L2 because of: A) I was way psyched and I most definitely had Go Fever, B) I overcomplicated things, tried dual deploy and redundant altimeters and fancy switches, C) I was in a rush to get my L3. Along the way I lost 2 birds and cratered 3.

Now that said, when I finally did get my L2 it was with a 4" scratch built carbon bird with full dual deploy, redundant altimeters, redundant batteries, redundant charges and fancy switches... however, instead of rushing, I was VERY methodical, did extensive ground testing and had a couple far more experienced rocketeers check out what I was doing at every step of the way. I learned the hard way. A written checklist of extreme detail is a real help too.

As an example story, I want to relate the story of an L3 project built by two of our most prominent club members (who shall remain nameless to prevent people from busting out laughing whenever they see them.) A major project that flew on an M and these guys had it down - they'd done it before. The rocket was gorgeous, although they hadn't painted it yet. Up all night the night before going carefully through everything - fresh batteries, ground testing, careful packing of chutes, etc. The following morning they took it out to the pad, stuck in the igniter and "Woooosh", the button was pushed. Now again, these were some of our most experienced and skilled club members... unfortunately the bird came in ballistic about 1/4 mile from the pads - they had forgotten to turn on the electronics.