Mr. Lawndartman;
Too much work. I'd have to lose weight, grow hair on top of my head, instead of all over the face, and I would probably have to give up rockets because then the women would want my attention and money. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Thanks for thinking of me or for me, Tim.

Any idea on the finished weight yet? That way I can start calculating the parachute size(s). I'll need at least 4 weeks lead time to make them.

Edward

No but should after next weekend .. also still unsure how many pieces I'm bringing it down in. Often on really large rockets they break apart the sustainer and bring the pcs down separately .. so I believe we'll have 3 separate pcs including the booster.

Thanks!

I am planning on being there, bringing gifts. A dozen offset thrust rings for six offset motors. Just finished them a few minutes ago. IN my next life I have got to get me an heated garage. I think I am getting frostbite on my hands and I can see my breath! 😯
Boo Hoo, Woh is me.

Sounds great Bear .. I have the MMTs as well so we can build them.

Steve,

Take a look at this chart -

http://www.alphahybrids.com/Media/TOROIDALPARACHUTEDATA.PDF

and let me know what looks in range. That way I can plan accordingly with fabric.

Edward

Another good day working on the Proton .. Bear at the Router table cutting bulkheads and Rich glassing the 12" tubes with their final wrap of 4.5 oz. They came out great as usual. Thanks guys!!!

Special thanks to Rich for bringing snacks, drinks and sandwiches .. awesome!

I'll be there again next week for anyone interested in helping out .. we got lots to do!

We ran out of glass cloth this weekend and will need a bit more to finish. We have been using a base wrap of 7.5 oz and a top wrap of 4.5 oz. I think we'll need about 3 yards (50" wide) of each to finish. If anyone has any drop laying around close to those weights we could put it to a good use.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve, I have shitloads of fiberglass 60" wide... the heavier stuff I believe is 6.5oz E-glass and the lighter stuff is 3.5 oz S-glass. All standard weave. You're welcome to come up and pick and choose and take what you need for the project.

Steve, I have shitloads of fiberglass 60" wide... the heavier stuff I believe is 6.5oz E-glass and the lighter stuff is 3.5 oz S-glass. All standard weave. You're welcome to come up and pick and choose and take what you need for the project.

Thanks Warren .. that would be perfect. I wanted to drop my RRC's off with Jim as well so that would be great since you're neighbors. When's a good time for you? today .. later in the week .. etc?

I'm off thru Wed .. probably all week (from the surgery).

Steve

What's the current plan for the airstarts and electronics? I have a Rocket Tiltometer from Frank Hermes on the way that I should be able to loan for this if needed. But if the outboards are just going to be lit at first motion, we could just use a Raven's liftoff detection or similar, because the rocket will still be on the rail at that point.

What's the current plan for the airstarts and electronics? I have a Rocket Tiltometer from Frank Hermes on the way that I should be able to loan for this if needed. But if the outboards are just going to be lit at first motion, we could just use a Raven's liftoff detection or similar, because the rocket will still be on the rail at that point.

No airstarts per se, just light at liftoff as you suggested. We made the mistake on the Delta of lighting an "M" and 6 "I"s at once .. the "I"s were almost done before liftoff on the "M".

I'm looking at using 'exploding bolts' per Keven Troj to attach the booster to the sustainer. I would also like a detector of some sort to disable the sustainer from lighting if the separation does not occur. Some type of push button that opens, closing the circuit, at separation .. would that violate the new ban on 'pull pins' ???

I'll also have the Tilt-O to address that aspect of the flight. Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it. If that was not available I'd pretty much decided I'd have to get one. The risk on something this large is just too high.

My friends like Kevin T and Neil and the boys at MDRA advise against couplers per se on the large body rockets. Kevin opts for a bulkhead to bulkhead fit w/ the exploding bolts and has had great success on really big projects. They also bring it down in mult sections so I'll have 3 .. the booster and then I'll break the sustainer into 2 sections. I can probably blow the booster chute right away .. 3000' or so ... but will need dual deploy in the sustainer sections .. est 9000'.

I do have a number of RRC2's and several timers .. though would not be opposed to getting new (mine are all from 2003-2007 era) electronics if the budget allows. In 2004 friends and club members donated over $700 to help pay for motors on the Delta II. I'll need at least that much for this project just for motors and paint. I'm up to $150 already so believe it will work out again.

Thanks!

O.k., so light all 6 outboards on the rail at first motion, then stage separation, then light the sustainer, right? What size for the outboards? Are you still plannnig for a K sustainer motor?

I'm pretty sure the ban on the pull-pins etc. was just meant to prevent the situation that happened at LDRS29, where an accidental stage separation when the rocket was horizontal at the pad triggered the second stage airstart timer to start counting down. If you have a Tiltometer and maybe an altitude check on the sustainer, I don't think it would be a problem to have an additional shunt inhibit that would pull apart at stage separation.

This will give me something to do in my afternoon meetings today.

O.k., so light all 6 outboards on the rail at first motion, then stage separation, then light the sustainer, right? What size for the outboards? Are you still plannnig for a K sustainer motor?

I'm pretty sure the ban on the pull-pins etc. was just meant to prevent the situation that happened at LDRS29, where an accidental stage separation when the rocket was horizontal at the pad triggered the second stage airstart timer to start counting down. If you have a Tiltometer and maybe an altitude check on the sustainer, I don't think it would be a problem to have an additional shunt inhibit that would pull apart at stage separation.

This will give me something to do in my afternoon meetings today.

The plan now is 3- M1300 (75/6000) and 6-K550 (54/1750) staging to an L1000. Just estimating on the motors, James will give me better numbers once we get closer.

To maximize the chances of all 6 outboards lighting, and minimize the consequences of one failure, I would use 2 Raven altimeters to give each outboard its own channel, battery, and arm switch. Then there would be 2 booster channels left for apogee and backup apogee, or apogee and stage separation. This way you can turn on the booster and confirm the deployment charges are armed and ready before arming each of the booster outboards. The outboards can be set to light as soon as the Ravens detect liftoff, which happens within a few feet. How many Gs would we expect on the pad?

Thinking outloud here and thinking towards a worst case scenario, of the three main motors, only two ignite in the booster, and only three of the 6 outboards ignite, and they are all on basically one side so that a tilt is induced, the sustainer ignition is locked out by the tiltometer and now we have to get the whole thing down safely and preferably, undamaged. Do the explosive bolts then fire to separate stages? This would seem to have to happen so that the sustainer recovery sytem is not carrying the booster with it. You need the bolts to fire, separate stages, and then deploy the booster recovery sytem while the sustainer is doing it's thing. Is this correct and is this part of the plan? 😯

Thinking outloud here and thinking towards a worst case scenario, of the three main motors, only two ignite in the booster, and only three of the 6 outboards ignite, and they are all on basically one side so that a tilt is induced, the sustainer ignition is locked out by the tiltometer and now we have to get the whole thing down safely and preferably, undamaged. Do the explosive bolts then fire to separate stages? This would seem to have to happen so that the sustainer recovery sytem is not carrying the booster with it. You need the bolts to fire, separate stages, and then deploy the booster recovery sytem while the sustainer is doing it's thing. Is this correct and is this part of the plan? 😯

Always good to consider W.C.S.'s. The booster separation is triggered via a timer .. so at 6 or 7 sec, whatever it is, it will sep. All stages will deploy at apogee either way, so as long as it is not at full thrust at that time the chutes will do their job. Even w/o separation the booster chute can and will deploy .. just hope it doesn't all get tangled. We could also have a 2nd event blow the sep charges at apogee .. just in case.