Whoa, just reading up on this project. Sounds amazing.

Well, I have no $$ and even though I have my Level 2, I am definitely still a noob to HP rocketry, but I live in Longmont and can sand, glue, whatever to help this along.... Message me if you can use me in any way, sounds like an amazing learning experience.

Kevin

Hey Kevin .. you are definitely welcome to join in. I hope to have our build site worked out this weekend .. it's in Longmont too.

Thanks!!

In doing further exploration, there is a website: http://www.cardmodels-r.narod.ru/html/images/Proton/proton-m.pdf, that shows instructions and patterns for building a model of a Proton M (and another site that does the Proton K).

As our Chief Researcher you are the man for this task. Warren really believes we should drop the boosters in flight, as we did on the Delta, for the obvious Cool-Factor. However, I am not sure they do drop off on the Real Proton. Looking at the pics it does not look like it .. especially since there is no center motor .. just the outboards. Can you confirm this one way or the other. Thanks!!

As our Chief Researcher you are the man for this task. Warren really believes we should drop the boosters in flight, as we did on the Delta, for the obvious Cool-Factor. However, I am not sure they do drop off on the Real Proton. Looking at the pics it does not look like it .. especially since there is no center motor .. just the outboards. Can you confirm this one way or the other. Thanks!!

WHO REALLY CARES!!!!!!!! I think "Cool Factor" is way more important !!!!!!!!!

And really now! Who's really gona know! 😉

If that Russian Scientist shows up at the Launch, and starts to "flap his gums" there will be enough of us there to tell him where they went wrong, and why! 8)

My old Boss use to say, "If Dodge wants there name on the Truck. Let them Buy it" "Now get that off of there and get my sign on" 😆

Besides, I am sure, the Proton I saw over Wheat Ridge the other day, Dropped its Boosters.
"I'm sure of it" 😉

Those thing-a-ma-jigs on the side of the rocket that we are calling boosters are the main engines. The central tube is a fuel tank and has no engine. It uses the same dangerous (and I do mean dangerous rocket fuel as the old Titan II missile that launched Gemini; like hydromorphous red fuming nitric acid) So in reality, there is no central rocket motor on the first stage, it is the six motors around the circumference that launch this thing. Of course if you want to have a center motor and drop the booster pods, as we have been calling them, that is cool. It is just sort of a sport scale rocket that is huge, expensive to launch, and looks a whole lot like a Proton M. (Or we could make it super scale and use the central tube as a fuel tank and get six liquid fuel motors soo we....... Probalby too complicated and certainly out of my current experience level, but would be way cool.) (where are the Rol-Aids?)Which ever way it is built, I know it is going to be hugely entertaining. I am into scale myself, but with all the details we do not have, getting it right down to all the details is impossible, so we do what we want. My next concern is can we get it high enough to get deployment of the chutes (5000 feet would be really cool) and do we have enough redundancy built into it so that it doesn't fail. Reading these posts, I think that is being taken care of. Of course we are going to have to scratch a few things. We have already deleted the below ground pit the rocket sits in and launched from, because there is no way we are going to ask the rangers for permission. Second thing that might have to go is the railroad tracks out to the erection gantry, and we will have to make some decisions about this since the erection gantry is underground also. When it is operated, it comes up and latches onto the rail car the rocket is mounted on for transport. Then the whole thing is raised into the vertical position. Then, the bindings that have secured the rocket to the railcar are released, and the erection gantry is lowered back to ground level, the rail car is released and pulled away. Then it can be launched. Considering this was supposed to be an ICBM, this seems really cumbersome. Anyway, we may have to scratch the concept of railroad tracks, rail cars, and underground gantrys. I just cannot se us getting buy with that and not have the ranchers blow a gasket or have a conniption fit. Now if we could get a trailer, have the rocket mounted on a laucnh rail already, rasie this asembly vertical, attach an extension to the top, and launch it from the end of the trailer, this oculd be pretty cool and efficient to. Probably not worth it unless it already exists within the club and is volunteered. 4 months till launch is pushing it. Lets see, is it T minus 131 days? So what are you/we going to do and how are you/we going to build it? I guess we shouldl also see about, for construction purposes, about 4 saw horses that have cradles built into them so we can support the two stages while we are building them. Those can be built now while we are figuring out the rest, once we have a place to build it. Better yet, anybody have a couple of hospital gurneys that we can use? Put cradles on them and build on top of them. We have a built in table for assembly, we have wheels to move assemblies out of the way, and they can elevate so when we mate the stages, it goes more easily.

smashburn - been at this only a couple of years, but did manage my L1 last summer. Have no practical skills, tools, spare parts, or ideas. Schooled as a chemical engineer,, that basically translates to, "Put a blue hardhat on that man and keep him away from the tool chest."

But I would like to help out (live in Fort Collins) - and as you implied at the annual meeting - learn by watching the big boys. I can sweep floors, change lightbulbs, take out the garbage (my wife can vouch for that), and recently learned how to operate a can of spray paint. Unlike many in this economic climate, I am fortunate enough to be gainfully employed, so have a little disposable income that I could donate to the cause.

Let me know how I can help.

I found a bunch more information and photos on the Proton K, Proton M, UR-500, SL-9 thru SL-12 rockets, learned about the Baikonour Cosmodrome, some, really detailed photographs of the rail car and launcher, etc. and thought I was placing it here on the site. It must have timed-out or something because it has not shown up. I am going home this evening and try to recreate it in word, and then cut and paste incase it did time out, and I am going to break it into two parts incase the file was to big. Mr. Webmaster, are these issues and if so, what are my limits?I also found another site for the paper card stock model of the Proton with photographs of the completed sub-assemblies. It showed the staging couplers between stage 1 and 2, and how it fits. Another link that I have to recreate showed a cut-away of the rocket and showed that the main tube that all the motor tubes are attached to is really just an oxidizer tank of nitric tetroxide, and the tubes that the motors are mounted onto are the actual fuel tanks. I will try to put all of that here tonight.

I'd just like to say that Steve Mashburn (smashburn) took on a bare L1 (me) when he proposed the Delta II project. I had some skills, but had never been involved in anything like that level of size or complexity. He knows how to execute a large project and I highly recommend it as what may well be one of the seminal experiences of your rocketry career - it certainly was for me. I learned a LOT and had a great time along the way. When it finally flew, my heart was in my throat and I was jumping up and down like a 5 year old. An experience not to be missed.

I'm here and available if needed.

Warren

Here is some more info. that I have dug up. See if this helps any..

In expanding my research in the quest for more details, I came across this site with a great photo of the rocket on its rail car. ( http://www.russianspaceweb.com/proton.html)

My search looks for details for the UR-500 ballistic missile, and the different NATO designations SL-9 thru SL-12 Proton.

At this site, which is a different page of the previous site, you can see the rocket being lifted on its rail car. Note: some of the wheels or trucks stay on the track and are not lifted. ( http://www.russianspaceweb.com/proton.html#protonm)

At this website, there are some interesting diagrams and photos. The diagrams show the 1st and 2nd stage fuel tank layouts, which explain some of the design and why it was built the way it was. ( http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/proton.htm)

This next site describes the launch complex and Baikonur . It goes into detail of how the rocket it erected at he pad and has a number of good photos that will give detail information. ( http://www.russianspaceweb.com/baikonur_proton.html)

There is the paper model again with links to the photos of the finished sub-assembly with information on the staging coupler at this site: ( http://jleslie48.com/gallery_models_real.htmlhttp://jleslie48.com/gallery_models_real.html)

Here is the other paper model link for comparison: ( http://www.cardmodels-r.narod.ru/index-e.htm)

Here are some photos to give greater insight:

IN this photo, look at the resting cradles. This will be the way to mount rail guides.

This photo is for the super-scale detail guys:

Here is a bigger picture of the rocket being erected. Notice the covering over the staging section. Looks like they use duct tape also! ( )

Still a different paint scheme while being erected and more duct tape!
Look at the blankets over the rocket:

More of the business end:

Here it is just as it is being lifted and the rail trucks still on the tracks:

This photo is really big and gives good detail of the motors:

Here is another paint scheme:

I look at this website, go down to the second photo where stages are being mated and see details of the 1st stage and what it looks like before the fairings are put on around the fuel tanks: http://orbiterchspacenews.blogspot.com/2010/12/proton-to-return-to-flight-in-december.html

Here is a picture of a Proton model going off at Plaster Blaster 9 : http://freeimagefinder.com/detail/5155594028.html

And some more detail of the motors:

That is all I can do right now.

Hey guys! I need phone numbers for everyone if possible. I hope to meet with Scott on Sat about using his hanger in Longmont for the build. We'll need to help him move some stuff abound and make room. Possibly some of you could join us and we could meet and go over my plans for the project. I will have all the parts gathered so far with me. We can get a good inventory and see if there are any 'immediate' needs.

PM your number, don't post on the forum.

I -may- have to work Sat morning so I'm unable to set a time yet. I'll know for sure tomorrow night.

Also, I am rebuilding my old website and uploading all the pics. I have tons from the Delta II build. You'll get an idea of what's in store by looking at them. It'll take a while for me to get them all up.

Thanks!!

Steve

"Put a blue hardhat on that man and keep him away from the tool chest."

But I would like to help out (live in Fort Collins) - and as you implied at the annual meeting - learn by watching the big boys. I can sweep floors, change lightbulbs, take out the garbage (my wife can vouch for that), and recently learned how to operate a can of spray paint. Unlike many in this economic climate, I am fortunate enough to be gainfully employed, so have a little disposable income that I could donate to the cause.

Let me know how I can help.

Well now!!!............. I have 2 light bulbs that need changing! Those 200 watt things they are trying to outlaw! 🙂 Need a step ladder...... A BIG ONE! say 15 or 20 feet. Broom? I have one. You can show me how to push it! Do you have a tooth brush? 😉

I have a copy of the "International Reference Guide to Space Launch Systems", and I've scanned the pages that seem to be relevant to the project and uploaded JPGs to Picassa:

https://picasaweb.google.com/104277995541934870423/ProtonInfo?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIPTw8ig-Ia4bg&feat=directlink

You should be able to zoom in & read the text if you click on the magnifying glass icon at the top of each image.

This guide (page 3 of what I scanned) describes the reason for the unusual booster engine configuration:

"The Proton first stage consists of a large central core oxidizer tank surrounded by six smaller fuel tanks. These are easily mistaken for strap-on boosters, but in fact they are an integral part of the first stage and do not separate. This distinctive design stems from early requirements for transporting Proton. The vehicle stages had to be manufactured at a central factory, then shipped by rail to the launch sites. The maximum length and diameter of the components were therefore limited by existing railway tunnels and other rail infrastructure. However, performance requirements dictated that the first stage would exceed these dimensions, thus requiring that it be manufactured as more than one element..."

Anybody desiring to go to Longmont for a meeting and who lives in Fort Collins or this vicinity is welcome to ride with me. I am starting in Wellington and headed south. I guess I have room for up to 4. Send me a PM and we can trade phone numbers, etc.

I'd just like to say that Steve Mashburn (smashburn) took on a bare L1 (me) when he proposed the Delta II project. I had some skills, but had never been involved in anything like that level of size or complexity. He knows how to execute a large project and I highly recommend it as what may well be one of the seminal experiences of your rocketry career - it certainly was for me. I learned a LOT and had a great time along the way. When it finally flew, my heart was in my throat and I was jumping up and down like a 5 year old. An experience not to be missed.

I'm here and available if needed.

Warren

Thanks Warren, I appreciate the kind words and support. I feel really good about this project and the group that's forming .. real good energy. Hopefully we can get together on Sat at Scott's and officially kick this off. I'll know tomorrow if I have to work Sat .. but I don't think I will.

I have a copy of the "International Reference Guide to Space Launch Systems", and I've scanned the pages that seem to be relevant to the project and uploaded JPGs to Picassa:

https://picasaweb.google.com/104277995541934870423/ProtonInfo?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIPTw8ig-Ia4bg&feat=directlink

You should be able to zoom in & read the text if you click on the magnifying glass icon at the top of each image.

This guide (page 3 of what I scanned) describes the reason for the unusual booster engine configuration:

"The Proton first stage consists of a large central core oxidizer tank surrounded by six smaller fuel tanks. These are easily mistaken for strap-on boosters, but in fact they are an integral part of the first stage and do not separate. This distinctive design stems from early requirements for transporting Proton. The vehicle stages had to be manufactured at a central factory, then shipped by rail to the launch sites. The maximum length and diameter of the components were therefore limited by existing railway tunnels and other rail infrastructure. However, performance requirements dictated that the first stage would exceed these dimensions, thus requiring that it be manufactured as more than one element..."

I can see the Russian scientist coming out in here.
Trying to distract from our um........"BOOSTER" separation. 😉

Ok, if we go for separation of six booster pods, it must be done philosophically correct. So in thinking about a design, please remember the old aviation design adage; if it is wierd, its British; if it is ugly, its French; and if its weird and ugly, its Russian. So lets make the separation mechanism weird and ugly! 8)