Bruce,

I'm a little asea here. I'm all for doing something, anything. And to be honest, there have been so many different suggestions at various times, I have lost track. So wjhether regional or open, I'd like to fly G supernoodle altitude. And at least one glider event of any impulse class. The cluster**** event sounds fun, along the lines of an event Dale N won 3 years back called the Vern Estes challenge. If we did at least one altitude event, we'd have the marks forever--does Nar allow WAAS GPS for theodolite placement? Nevermind, think I know the answer.... 😥
JS

John, a glider event sounds great, if enough NCR members will compete, though we'll have a lot of CRASH members competing with us. Personally, the NARAM-11 national trophy I won in '69 was Sparrow Booster Glider. As far as the event being an Open, I understand your confusion. We've gone from a National Sport Launch (my fault for mentioning that one 🙂 ) to a Regional, to now an Open. The reason we're starting with an Open is that we want the first one to be a good experience, and not more than we can handle, and still have a good time. After a good event, we can only go up from there. As far as alternatives to theodolites, you're right, you know the answer, strictly mechanical. 🙄 Supernoodle G... you can present that at the meeting. You know, you think you'd be happy with a G Egg Loft Duration... 😀 Everyone, keep the ideas comin'!

Bruce,

Thanks for the refresher course in recent history. Open sounds fine to me. Either G event is fine, but superroc tends to have much greater entertainment value, and is slated for NARAM. Plus there are preliminary plans to fly another egg event--the H999 Warp 9 maxi scramble or whatever at MHM.

The other event i'm less than crazy about is F streamer--personally i'd rather see D impulse. Here's why: looking at the Naram F altitude event, many of those flights were around a mile high flying stock motor based deployments. Big streamers will reduce the altitude but not by so much that drift won't be significant--that means lots of chase time. In a one day event, where weather is iffy in the afternoon, I'd rather try to keep the duration events closer to home, and gear the events for minimum turn around time. And again gliders have lots of entertainment value, which I feel is something to consider if you're trying to show off this aspect of modrocketry and who knows, maybe generate some interest among club regulars, who may not have any previous exposure to NAR competition. Just a few thoughts.

JS

PS: Also re the theodolites, I was only asking about whether using WAAS differential GPS for theo placement would be allowed rather than hand measurement? These units with 4 sats in the sky are good to a meter or two accuracy, and likely comparable to any hand based measurement over uneven terrain. Certainly when you figure in the closure uncertainty, would seem to be as good...but hey likely preaching to the choir on this issue.

Spot Landing (impulse </= C) WF 4 (for all ages, but primarily for
younger members, Div. A)
F Streamer Duration WF 13
G Egg Loft Duration WF 22 (Dual 29 WtF)
Additonal suggestions:
B Helicopter duration is WF 21 (with above would put us at 60, unless
we do a dual G Egg Loft Duration)
C Cluster Altitude, WF20 (6 motors required!)

Now that this is on the books for the year, I think I'll revive this thread with my two cents. First, I still say a Regional might be a good thing. This could allow someone to get all 12 of their contest factors in for national placing without leaving the state with CRASH's two contests and COSROC's. There may be more events but you don't have to enter them all if you don't want to.

As far as events go, I'd pick the ones that someone can fly with near standard rockets from their inventory to possibly attract more interest. For example, an Estes Alpha 3 can be modified with a real big parachute for A, B and C parachute duration events, a streamer for streamer events, flown stock for altitude and if you're really adventurous helicopter blade. Adding an egg capsule would be a breeze as well for egg lofting.

This may not be the most nationally competitive configuration, but it's presented as an example of how someone could give this a shot for the first time without investing in tricked out builds and lots of money. Besides as D1 and I found out, qualified flights are what's most important.

Dave2

OOOOOOHHH!! Glider event! GLIDER EVENT!!!!!

ya'll wouldn't stand a chance.... 😉

Superrocs - preferably F+ 😯

😉 8) 😆

Bruce,

First a debt of gratitude. You did it. I found John's argument interesting, re a full card vs an event or two, but when all is said and done, I think we need a full card, so as to attract some guys from Crash and possibly cosrocs/pueblo. This was one of the big reasons to do it in the first place. So I vote for a full ticket with the 40 WF, but with 2 or 3 ringer events that don't require much modification as you suggest. So if one wants to throw their hat in the ring, they can. For the hard events, a glider and superroc event sound good, but doesn't need to be the 14 ft supernoodle G event.

Also since it is a one day affair, some thought needs to be given to turnaround time. Again chasing down a pair of F streamer flights could take most of the day, so even lowering to E might be helpful.
JS

OOOOOOHHH!! Glider event! GLIDER EVENT!!!!!

ya'll wouldn't stand a chance....

Nate, is that your Manta 3 on the Oktoberfest DVD? 🙂 Be careful about CRASH glider makers, they're nationally ranked. You would be up against some of the best... 8)

First a debt of gratitude. You did it.

All I did was some groundwork and communication. Others need recognition, including Joe Hinton for bringing this up at last April's cleaning party and his continued guidance on getting this done. Warren, our contest director, deserves a lot of credit for allowing this to happen. While we agreed to hold a NAR event either in April or June (and this needs to be decided definitively and soon), we still haven't decided on the events. Whether it will be an Open or Regional will depend on the events we want to do. After we've decided, then we'll add up the weighting factors, and that will tell us whether it's an Open or Regional. The thing to settle now and quickly will be the specific events. Use this forum to suggest more events. Once we have a good assortment, I'll ask Warren to post a survey of the proposed events, and we'll determine it democratically. The important thing is for us and our guests to have FUN! More later and soon!

Indeed, a lot of guys helped but you did the foot work.
JS

Well, I appreciate that. Besides the temporary unemployment (should be resolved this month), some muscles in my right hand have atrophied, and it takes a lot to type anything. Long story short, muscles contract, so the ones that lift my fingers on the right hand are the ones that have atrophied. Going to a neurologist this Thursday, probably a pinched nerve in my 7th vert. Haven't even been able to notify Russ Anthony about the NAR event yet. Since I'll be going through hand rehabilitation at some point soon, getting my L3 at MHM is getting more and more important to me. Must rest, then I'll be back to pick up the NAR event details!

Okay, here goes. While the actual launch date still needs to be determined (April or June?), after this year's launch dates are posted and we check with CRASH/COSROCS for launch date conflicts, whether we have an Open or Regional meet isn't important. Once the events are determined, we'll just add the weighting factors and see what we end up with. The important thing is that we select contests that we, and others, want to do. From all of what's been said, here is a list as a starting point:

1) Spot Landing (impulse </= C) WF 4 (for all ages, but primarily for
younger members, Div. A)
2) F Egg Loft Duration WF 29 (Good practice for the H999 "uncontest")
3) G Super-Roc Duration WF 20 (Dale needs this... )
4) E Boost Glider Duration WF 23 (Nate has his ready!)

Notice that these are all duration events (except Spot Landing). While using a theodolite isn't difficult, proper training takes time and practice. I don't think we should ask CRASH members to come and do all the work. For duration, we just need a couple of good timers with tenth of a second resolution (and I don't mean those who hit the beer cooler a tenth of a second after the waiver closes 🙂 ) . Dave2, I know this conflicts somewhat with what you suggested. Although the Spot Landing and Parachute Duration events can be used with any off-the-shelf kit. But since most of our members are high power guys, these events would appeal to them more. Could be wrong on that though, not my call. We could easily and SHOULD throw in a parachute or streamer duration event for younger members. Conway is right, this is for future rocket people, too. Let's throw a C parachute duration in.

5) C Parachute Duration WF 9

For argument's sake, that would give us a WF of 85 and a Regional Launch. Remember this is a ONE DAY event. Any more than five contest events, IMHO, is too much for one day. This is pushing the envelope. Okay, let's start from here... suggestions?

I think it's a good list. Although I'm not really a serious competitor, I would definitely throw something together - possibly the glider or eggloft (the superroc would be a possibility, but a bit ambitious...). It definitely sounds like something I would try though, and the duration rather than altitude side adds an extra bit of complexity.

EDIT: hmm - after looking around a bit, I could definitely do the boost glider event, as much as anything to challenge Nate 😆

Bruce,

Sorry to hear of the neurological problems. Hope this turns out well for you with the MRI.

David Tjarks has sent out a message on the Crash site, so no worry there. I also talked a little while back with Jason U but since little was definite, only asked for guys to start thinking about events.

The first time our club in Utah did a low altitude event--no one there had ever tracked we got closure rates of about 80 percent. So there is a learning curve when you consider the F altitude event at NARAM this year had 95% plus.

It might be fun some time when we return to North, just to pick some good spots for the theos, and try tracking some LPR and MPR flights when there is nothing at stake. We could throw up some lobs and see how the results compare to altimeter readings and let those with any interest get some practice. One lesson learned, flyers who threw up big clouds of tempura or chalk dust got closed nearly every time. I think altitude events wait for now. Maybe next year.

If you follow Crash, they have a neat method of democratically deciding events. A pool of interesting events is generated, then people submit combinations on-line, these get voted on and haggled over until there is clear favorite. I'll bet Russ would help.

But first things first, date and open vs regional. And hey in deference to Dale, we should do the super noodle--if nothing else it should almost meet Wilke's 1/3rds law of entertainment value: 1/3 are qualified, 1/3 shred, 1/3 rd are lost. Only in this case more like 50/50 between the first two. (Now that I have a case back, I plan to fly a w9 egg lofter next month at atlas just for all those skeptics.)
John S

Hey - I'll gladly fly a W9 egglofter, and I'll guarantee egg survival too. It won't be next month, but I'll do it...

The problem would be that I'm not sure I have electronics that will handle it - my R-DAS only has an accel sensor good for 50 gees...