... and the wind is calm--at best, dead. Honestly, I'm probably going to just sim, build and launch. While it goes against my engineering experience, there's something I have to do to the rocket, other than wax, that I only want to do once.

I personally will not be test-flying mine. It would be too difficult to find, and I want to maximize my chances of finding it. If I loose it, I want to loose it on the qualifying flight, not a test flight.

I know what you're saying. But, Chris, if you lose it, you don't qualify anyway. It has to be turned in by the end of the day's flight time. It's still gone. I have two versions: one, apogee deployment (less weight), and two, dual deployment (more weight). With the DD, the chances of losing it are pretty slim. Might be better to have a recovered rocket with less altitude, than one that was lost with a record-setting altitude. With apogee, depends on the weather and seeing conditions... and luck. After all, we only have to beat each other. I still don't know, but I want my options open. I DO know this, with Warren's 15 and your 14.8 second delay, providing it's for apogee, you're both near 7,000 feet, if not over it. 6,500 feet is more than achievable, and most should do that. 'Nuff said. 🙂

I know, but I would rather not qualify by loosing it while trying than by loosing it on a test flight. I agree about the DD issue - still debating about whether to go dual or not.

Just curious if you guys are using the file for the NEW Aerotech G80 or the older motor? This contest stipulates that the new G80 must be used. It has 20% fewer NS than the old G80. If anyone gets 7K on the new G80, then they need to have their altimeter checked (I'm serious).

6K would be an awesome, incredible shot. 7K? Not gonna happen with the new load. Not with a properly calibrated altimeter.

Agreed. It's my understanding that all are using the correct AT G80 version in their sims. The key is a low Cd, and unless you have a wind tunnel, that's only a SWAG using age-old techniques.

Just curious if you guys are using the file for the NEW Aerotech G80 or the older motor? This contest stipulates that the new G80 must be used. It has 20% fewer NS than the old G80.

Okay, now that I've had time to verify what I said earlier, and all trash talking aside, I checked my software (SpaceCAD--which has been very accurate in the past), and it has two AT G80's: one G80 and a G80T. Looking into the engine data files, the G80 has 119 N/s, and the G80T has 99 N/s. So, technically the G80T is the one to use. However, when I use the G80 (the more powerful motor, by 16.6%), my rocket doesn't go near as high as the G80T. Since the contest is underway, I can't--or won't--go into details of my respective settings in the software because that can give some of my gameplan away. I can get a delay from 12-17 sec., and altitudes ranging from 4800' to over 7100'. Neither is correct. So, my altitude will be in that range, as will everyone else's. Boy, I gave nothing away in this e-mail, did I? 😆 You know that saying "a month of Sundays"? Well, the rocket is built... so now it's layers of various paint and covering types and "a month of sanding." I really hate this part, but it makes the difference between ensuring all the trade-offs like fin shape, fin tip, optimum weight (lightest rocket never wins, by the way... can't; laws of physics won't allow that--think about the phases of flight, inertia, momentum, etc. But everyone knows that, right?), component placement, etc. work. We all know a bad paint job can negate all the neat techniques. Oh well, back to sanding while the sun's still out...

Sanding and painting is ALWAYS the reason my projects are late or don't fly when I intend.

Warren

Not sure to what to attribute the diffs, my Rocksims vary considerably depending on small items, but I get 7500 consistently. I believe at least 80% of that ( based on past experience) is reasonable expectation for even less than optimal flight path.
JS

Hey, I remember when I calculated all this by hand, way back in the mid to late 60's. And it was a helluva lot closer. 😆 The really good thing about this is not all the calculations and sanding, it's the flight... and the camaraderie to help you find and pick up the pieces after you've searched the prairie for hours for the results of all your hard work. All the best laid plans of mice and men, right? I just love this kind of competition. NAR traditionally is better at it only because we had to optimize low power, while TRA could just power their way up. The skills in this club, either NAR or TRA, are just tremendous. The best. Even with Lucerne Lake just an hour or two away while I lived in So. Ca., this is the best club I've ever been in. And I've waited a long, long time. 😆

For my part, I'm not going to try to max out altitude for the SSS. Really. I think if the sims *were* right, i.e. 7,500', then you would never find the rocket. I am building something with fins that are too big, with a body tube that is too long, etc. My rocket is 22.125" long, 29mm, conical cone, fin span of 1.25", root chord of 2.0", weight of 214g. I simulate to 6,331' at 5,500' MSL at 85 deg F. I think if it gets to 6,300' then it will be next to impossible to find.

On a related note, I have built a rocket for the G55 for a TRA altitude attempt. I'm not willing to be quite so open with that project, at least not until the last G55 is burned or the certification expires 😮 I believe I can crack 8,000' for that blast. Stay tuned.

On yet another related note, I am going to try to fly pretty much as high as possible on the SSSS (J350 blast). I am hoping for 13,500' there.

Finally, I'm AGU (all geeked up) to report that Tripoli has accepted my L record of 23,404'. I heard from them last week.

JW

Is anyone flying their SSS at the June launch? I will *not*... I am flying the RATT M and that will be a handful. July for me...

Bruce,
Agreed. Once in awhile I look around for TRA competition activities. Nada. Rainbow valley which maybe not so coincidentally is a hybrid HPR/NAR section seems so inclined on occasion and can fly biggums while sposoring the NARAM this year is another. LDRS an obvious venue if you like bowling balls...

I think competition is good stuff. There are basically 2 species IME, geeksters who'd be as happy besting a B alt record by a few meters, and "pyros" who'd just as soon use quikcrete one part molds and fly O sparky's to 2000.'

This club provides both. Some day I'd like to see NCR host NAR events, or T-C do the same. In the meantime, this is sweet.
JS

Started adding color to the covering mix on my rocket yesterday... and a bug with large wings bonzied right into the fresh paint. 👿 Isn't that the way life goes? Anyway, I will probably have it ready to fly at the June launch, just in case the weather's right. It won't have the finish I wanted, but the right conditions might override that. Dunno. Impulse decision (pun intended). 😆 If the weather isn't what I want, then I'll take it home and keep finishing it. My only altitude contest experience was way back at NARAM-11 in 1969. Interesting story though. It was a peewee payload (1 oz. lead weight, and a B or C motor, don't remember which) predicted altitude. I did all the calculations by hand. No software at the time. I came up with 212 feet (or meters, don't remember that either, probably feet with the weight, anyway...). Launched the rocket a couple of times. It was dead on--visual altitude trig determination at the time. No altimeters. Operator dependent. Packed it up with the other four of my contest rockets and headed to Colorado Springs. I was 16 at the time. Well, my egg launch scrambled--never did during practice flights, plus it cocked into the wind. Okay, fine. One down. Four to go. Peewee payload. My Dad, the multi-patented engineer, said I should adjust my calculations for the altitude in Colorado Springs. I did... and was WAY OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My altitude in Illinois was consistently 212 feet. In Colorado Springs 213 feet. I would've have been within a foot and had the national record. My Dad and I had a good laugh for years after that. Moral? Don't second-guess yourself and make last-miunte changes. Do what is proven. Could've worked the other way though. There are so MANY variables in play... plus altitude determination depended on operators--people, not computers. All the rest of my flights were good but not good enough for a national trophy, except for one. The Sparrow Boost Glide. My flight was 2 and a half minutes or so, longer than the international record at the time. My Dad approached G. Harry Stine about doing the paperwork for the international record, but Stine said there wasn't time. So we left and headed home to Illinois. I won't name names, but it's a matter of record... guess who got the international record? Another flyer less than 30-60 seconds flight time than mine. Who ended up with the international record that year? Okay, I'll name names. On record. Stine's daughter. And, that was my introduction to organizational politics, a very valuable lesson. That's why I really value NCR. None of that.

What John Wilkes did this weekend at Hartsell with a G55 was absolutely incredible. The only thing true in this post thread is that NCR has tremendous talent. Uh, um... John, you're entered in the 2006 SSS? Gulp. 🙄 Well, I attended my first club meeting in January, and except for one, you won all the contests. Now I know why. This old NAR guy is gonna shut until he can put up. My heartfelt congratulations. Your skills are remarkable and second to none. Period.