You know for all the egotism in the club...

I just don't see the egotistical thing you refer to. There are many folks who have loaned fully built rockets to others who were seeking answers. I can give you numerous examples of where rocksim files were shared freely. I have asked many people how they did this-or-that, and they have always told me. To my knowledge, I've never left a singular question unanswered that was asked of me-- and I've never once sought counsel of a fellow flyer and came away empty-handed.

I've seen plenty of hobbies where there were egos involved. Go flyfishing sometime, and ask a successful angler what fly he is using effectively during a hatch. You probably won't get very far. Ask any one of NCR's flyers to tell you how they mounted those fins, or how they achieved that finish, or how they crammed that chute into such a small area -- and they will tell you.

I just don't see the egotism you refer to. On the contrary, I've never known a group that was more interested in sharing their knowledge, secrets, or successes.

....that I KNOW will top 17K on a J570 and with the appropriate booster section will take the record for a J350. I'd be all in... if JW wasn't in the game... 😯 😀 😆

Warren

JW has been beaten handily many times in contests like this. I've lost Icarus more times than you can imagine, and I'm 1 for 3 in the SSS and SSSS department. Ed is the cagey one you need to keep an eye on 😉

You know for all the egotism in the club...

I just don't see the egotistical thing you refer to. There are many folks who have loaned fully built rockets to others who were seeking answers. I can give you numerous examples of where rocksim files were shared freely. I have asked many people how they did this-or-that, and they have always told me. To my knowledge, I've never left a singular question unanswered that was asked of me-- and I've never once sought counsel of a fellow flyer and came away empty-handed.

I've seen plenty of hobbies where there were egos involved. Go flyfishing sometime, and ask a successful angler what fly he is using effectively during a hatch. You probably won't get very far. Ask any one of NCR's flyers to tell you how they mounted those fins, or how they achieved that finish, or how they crammed that chute into such a small area -- and they will tell you.

I just don't see the egotism you refer to. On the contrary, I've never known a group that was more interested in sharing their knowledge, secrets, or successes.

I have to agree with you on this. About the only information in rocketry that I haven't seen shared completely freely is motor formulas in EX, and it's arguable that they aren't shown everywhere for safety reasons. If you ask a rocketeer a question about how they did something with their rocket, they will almost assuredly answer the question honestly and fully - how many people do you see doing that in other areas?

I'm in full agreement with this. I haven never had anyone refuse to share techniques, design info or even what in the commercial world would be called confidential proprietary engineering designs freely and with a remarkably open attitude. This is one of the best hobbies I've ever known with some of the best people I've ever known.

Warren

Guys, I agree to some extent, and am the first to thank John for all the support he has provided in my education around altitude events. In fact i wrote a very nice letter recommending him as a TRA L3 Tap man.

But if you don't think there some serious competitive juices, ie egotism, running around here, you're all either tone deaf, blind, or both. One can argue that the most blatant form of egotism is handing over the blueprints to your competitor, with a grin, "beat me if you can" knowing that one's arcane knowledge and better craftsmanship/skills will still prevail.

I'm not saying this is John W's MO. In fact I think he is a good guy and wants to share, but there may be an ulterior, even unconscious, motive at work--so starved for competition he will gladly share any info just to get another competitor onto the field to be slain.

If we had 40 entrants posting flights weekly, the tendency to help might diminish. This is an interesting area of interdisciplinary thought known as Games Theory. Evolutionary biology, psychology, economics are the major players last I looked.

I think the rocket communitys sharing attitude is way cool as it is in many hobbies that border on the insane.

But if you don't think there are some serious egos around these parts, guess again. I own one. But I also share every single technique I have heard of, developed, or extended in some fashion, freely. Yet, I don't know that I would put up a rocksim file of my SSS design. Maybe for the SSSS we all should. It would be weird, but take your pick and do the best you can with it.

Now this may be a disturbing read, but hey, I think it was asked for cuz I'm sick of the backhanded insults. There are many members in the club who would probably help some confused boyscout get his igniter in properly, even tho it means missing the one opportunity to fly. There are several members in this club who would do such, I may be wrong but I'm guessing not a single poster to this thread is among them.
Cheers,
John S
PS warren if you'd like a side bet at less $$, lets say 40.

I know this - I have something fun planned for my SSSS entry this year, and it really won't be necessarily the best design (if someone comes with an absolute maxed out carbon scream machine, I won't be able to compare), but it should be fun and get up there 🙂

I'll disclose most of the data as I finalize the design, though I'm keeping one thing secret (you'll see it when I bring out the rocket - it isn't anything that would give a competitive edge, just a fun little experiment of mine :D)

....starved for competition he will gladly share any info just to get another competitor onto the field to be slain.

So many points of rebuttal that I don't even know where to begin. I'll type my comments in bold and reference JS's, which I have italicized.

Regarding "One can argue that the most blatant form of egotism is handing over the blueprints to your competitor, with a grin, "beat me if you can" knowing that one's arcane knowledge and better craftsmanship/skills will still prevail. " I'd guess if I told folks to go away when they had a question and if I hid in my corner, then most normal folks in the club would think THAT would be egotistical. As far "arcane knowledge" and "better craftsmanship" -- I'm the guy who uses NO carbon, NO fillers, etc. I have also posted quite often that I use 30 minute epoxy for essentially everything. Try again.

Regarding "but there may be an ulterior, even unconscious, motive at work--so starved for competition...." Kindly stick to analyzing people during your day job.

Regarding "But if you don't think there are some serious egos around these parts, guess again.". Golly, you are right -- It was you, after all, that said "60K is cake" (direct quote)

Regarding "starved for competition he will gladly share any info just to get another competitor onto the field to be slain". I've been beaten many times in Icarus, SSS, SSSS, you name it. And to my great joy, it is often by flyers that I mentored.

Regarding your statement "But I also share every single technique I have heard of, developed, or extended in some fashion, freely". Didn't I get lambasted for that very thing earlier in your same post? Guess the street doesn't run both ways.

Finally, regarding "There are many members in the club who would probably help some confused boyscout get his igniter in properly, even tho it means missing the one opportunity to fly. There are several members in this club who would do such, I may be wrong but I'm guessing not a single poster to this thread is among them." Several of these posters work on TARC projects (have you?) I sponsored a Team America Rocketry Challenge group myself last year. Many of us routinely speak in classrooms on rocketry. I did a whole section on the physics of rocketry last year in the local high school. Had you read all the earlier posts, you'd also note that I'm busy helping a junior member with a very major project this year, so I didn't really have time for your $250 per flyer SSSS thing. Obviously you've been too busy to notice.

Have a nice day.

Gentleman... This is beyond the bounds here. While this is definitely a place for spirited discussion, it is NOT a place for personal attacks - however veiled or with whatever presentation of innocence or good will.

ALL competition here is good natured and in the spirit of friendship, not with whatever negative motivations that this sort of conversation alludes to. At this point I think the appropriate thing to do is to lock down this thread and ask all participants to take a deep breath and think carefully on how your posts will be taken by others before pushing the Submit button and to edit them as appropriate to present an attitude of mutual respect and good will.

This forum is not here to provide a place for flaming and inter-personal arguments/feuds.

Enough said I hope.

Warren