Scott, I don't have a problem upscaling something someone else has done already.

True, but it might be nicer to see a bunch of different upscales compared to 10 or more of the same rocket? A friend and I have e-mailed about doing one, but I'll let him say something here. Things have to come together in order for that to happen. This is a good place to post if/when someone comes up with what they really plan to do. That way everyone would know what to expect.

I just had a great idea for one... so when are those rules coming out?

Hey what about a Saturn V That hasnt been done before has it?
Hey whats that picture e upper right corner? 😉

The rules will be coming out soon. Warren has been busy and the one thing this contest needs is a Contest Director to run it. I wrote the rules based on what I thought would make a good, fair, contest. I received some good input from one person but the work so far is essentially from one individual. The rules were written to encourage (reward) complex or challenging projects, not just who can go the biggest.

Like some of you I am very interested in this contest, that's why it was created. I feel it has the potential to be very beneficial for NCR with great coverage in the magazines. But it still needs more work. Some of the questions that have been posted here are excellent examples of things that I had not thought of.

I would be happy to try to answer any of your questions but my answers are just my opinion. The contest rules as they are written have not been adopted by Joe, Warren or anyone else.

So if anyone cares,

The rules prohibit an existing rocket to be entered. For example, I could not enter my Mars Snooper II since it is already built. It is permissible to build another one but the rule is there to encourage new projects not just entering an old one.

Yes you could enter just one rocket from a dual package.

If you did a Saturn V or any other scale rocket kit, you are building an upscale of the kit not another scale of the actual rocket. Its a subtle difference but the X-15 or the military airplanes comes to mind. The Estes kit were pretty different from the actual vehicles.

The rules are written for any Estes or Centuri kit, not just from the 70's or 80's.

Finally, I know everyone wants to talk about the ideas and kits they would like to work on for the contest but you may wish to keep that to yourself until the rules are finalized. There is a statement in the rules about not posting the kits being upscaled in the interest of fairness. The reason was so the judges would not be biased by hearing about some kits for a year and other nothing at all. However, like all the proposed rules this one is subject to elimination or change. I worked very hard to make the rules fair but to encourage challenging projects and I hope they survive that way. Please be patient and the rules should be posted by the end of the month.

Doug

Thanks Doug for the post. Yes, there is an Upscale Contest in the works and it looks to be a very fine contest. Rules are pretty well fleshed out - again, thanks to Doug for coming up with this idea and pretty well putting the rules down on paper. Joe and I and some other folks are reviewing the rules and kicking them around with the idea that this is bigger than NCR. We'd like to extend this into at least a regional contest.

One given is that the contest will be held at the 2009 Oktoberfest. You'll have to have the bird finished and ready for a panel of judges by Saturday of that event. Rules will be published at a worst case by the end of August or beginning of September. (I just moved to a new house and life is total chaos at the moment or it would be sooner) You'll have approximately 1 year to get 'er done. Eligible rockets are ANY Estes or Centauri kit design (scale or not) from the 60's through current but the key is that it HAS to be built new for this contest. No existing birds need apply. Entry fee is still under discussion, but it will be substantial enough that you won't enter and then blow off the contest like has happened with the SSS and SSSS contests of the last 2 years.

Give me a couple weeks to get my life in order and for the discussions amongst the executive committee to happen and we'll post the rules here on the NCR website. We hope to make this a big contest with big prizes and there WILL be national magazine coverage of it. Keep an eye out for the next announcement.

Warren

For my part, I'd like to suggest (grovel, ask, beg, etc.) that teams be allowed for the upscale contest. I'm to the point in my rocketry life where I really enjoy doing team or group projects. While I think it is counterproductive to have ten of us on a project like this, I do believe a groups of two or three would be fun?

Thoughts??

I had not considered this to be a team event, but it does raise a very good point. I wouldn't want to see a team of a dozen people joining resources (money and effort) trying to compete against a lone person. However, I think two or three people team would be fine. Perhaps a way to discourage team's is to have each member of the team pony up the entrance fee? So a large team, say larger than all the other team members combined, if they won, they would just get their entrance fee back. If they didn't, the winner buys all rounds...

Doug

For what this will take, and to do it right, 2-3 on a team will make it possible to do some really GREAT projects. I agree with JW on this. And, Doug, I agree with you on really big teams being unfair. Fewer projects that way, too. See how wishy-washy I am... I agree with everybody... so far. 😉

For what this will take, and to do it right, 2-3 on a team will make it possible to do some really GREAT projects. I agree with JW on this. And, Doug, I agree with you on really big teams being unfair. Fewer projects that way, too. See how wishy-washy I am... I agree with
everybody... so far. 😉

Now your not going to be a FLIP-FLOPPER are you?? 😉

For what this will take, and to do it right, 2-3 on a team will make it possible to do some really GREAT projects.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this Bruce. I agree that the more people you have the easier it is on the members of the team and true most upscale projects are team projects. However, there have been some (and I would like to think I am one of them) that have built what would be hopefully competitive rockets by themselves.

That is why I sort of like the idea of allowing teams with any number of members so long as each member has to pay the entrance fee. I assume that they would split the prize as well but its that compromise, you can have them (any number of members of your team) but you have to pay for them. I believe it might make people want to re-think the idea of a large team project. Now, does it punish those who want to do a two person team? Perhaps yes. But remember a team with multiple members has an advantage over a single person trying to compete.

Remember my disclaimer, the rules have not been approved yet...

Doug

WHAT??!! 😯 2 entrance fees or even 3 !!!
Could 1 guy enter 2 or 3 Rockets???
Or wait maybe A rocket modeled after 2 or 3 differant Estas Rockets combined into one. (That would be diffrant)
Der Red Max could carry the Orbital Transports Gllider aloft.
Or a scissor wing Red Max!
A helcoptor returning Red Max!
😉 😉 😉

Now your not going to be a FLIP-FLOPPER are you??

Maybe I am... or maybe I'm not... 🙄

Doug, I also agree with the entrance fee paid by all who enter, whether on a team or not. That is a great equalizer, and, as you say, the rules aren't set in stone yet. I agree with Warren that you set down great, fair, and comprehensive rules for the contest. Even though we'll all wait for the verdict, this discussion will help the board come up with the rules they want to set with at least some input from the club members.

For my part, I think groups of two or three would probably encourage some more elaborate efforts and entice more folks into the contest at the same time. I'm working on several joint projects right now... if they were not joint gigs, I would probably be working on nothing 😳 so for me, it sort of pulls me in.

Besides, that way I have someone to blame if we forget to arm the altimeter.

JW

PS Yes, one of the last projects I was on, we indeed forget to arm the altimeter. NOTE TO SELF: DO NOT DO THAT AGAIN. EVER.

I think groups of two or three would probably encourage some more elaborate efforts and entice more folks into the contest at the same time.

Yes it encourages some and discourages others. There are folks that could/would not participate unless they had a helping hand. At the same time, as more and more teams come together the less and less likely you'll see the individual try to compete. There is no doubt that having a lot of people working for the same goal will likely outperform an individual trying to perform that same goal.

I think the rules of the contest should be written to "level the playing field" and not give an advantage to one contestant over another. I don't object to small groups but I'm not sure restricting the size to "no more than three members" is the way to go. There would still be a clear advantage of having a team especially if they shared the entrance fee while an individual contestant had to pay by himself.

Doug

For the most part, the rules set down by Doug look to be extremely solid and will promote a great competition. Team projects were not addressed in those rules and the entry fee is one of the few aspects still to be decided upon. I just finished moving to the new house yesterday and now I just have to get my home computer set back up and dig out some papers so I can get back on track. When Joe returns from his trip, I'm planning on holding an executive committee meeting with this contest one of the main topics of discussion (website issues are also on the list as well as planning for Oktoberfest).

I'm not wedded to any particular scheme here, but I think the idea of a single entrant paying $100 and a five person team paying $500 isn't going to be popular. However, I could readily see a single entry fee of $X and a team entry fee of say, 3 x $X regardless of the size of the team. I agree with Doug that a single entrant going up against a 12 person team might be a bit unfair both with regard to resources (cash) and labor capability so perhaps something needs to be done such as either limiting the size of the teams or perhaps judging the team projects separately from the individual projects. After all, a team of 12 could build a 1/2 scale Mercury Redstone while a single entrant might be hard pressed to build a 6x Mosquito.

In any event, rest assured that this project will be discussed and your thoughts and ideas are key to refining this down from an excellent idea into an excellent contest. Keep 'em coming! We're still moving ahead with the idea that the contest begins at Oktoberfest '08 and the actual flights and judging will be held at Oktoberfest '09.

Warren