I really try to avoid posting negative comments but I do have to inform you that "Control" failed to work on my 2 stage rocket and all was completedly lost. This is the same rocket I flew successfull at the last Oktoberfest. I chose it because of the "extra" (forth) channel and it could do all, staging, upper stange ignition, and recovery. Although the exact cause of the failure will always be unknown, it did none of those things. Would you like to buy a used one? Flown twice, worked once...

I prefer the MC. I can down load the data and export it into another progam. No other that I know of does that. Plus, I prefer that it can be programmed to deploy some time after apogee. Great for the camera shots.

Doug

Doug,

Hmmm. Others swear by them. Odd to have a complete failure with both baro and gee launch detect. We'll see how mine does at MHM in 2 stage mode. Hopefully better than your experience, 😥 but both stages will have redundant recovery electronics in any event as I have the altimeter curse. Figures I'd buy one that is suspect reliability, tho when it does work, it can do damn near anything including mult events contingent on others with variable delays, etc.
J

All I know is that I can (almost) completely guarantee that you won't loose your rocket John. The RRC2 will work, regardless of whether the control does or not 8)

chris,

thats good to hear as I have more time invested in this rocket than the rest of my fleet. Wish i had bought one years ago, I'd be a lot further along in the game. May still do as I need to replace my MAWD, and maybe get one of those picoalts you're talking about for the skinny-mini stuff.
JS

The only thing I can contribute it to is either (1) it never got powered up or (2) it couldn't satisfy its requirements to continue. My understanding is if you tell it a particular configuration and it doesn't see it, it says "I'm not going to play" and will not proceed to even detect lift off. Its only status indication is a LED which the rocket was not configured for. (It expects you will mount it to the inside of the body tube only). Yes, I should have used reduncancy or verified it was ready or... Hind sight is always 20/20, I just wanted to share my experience and to say don't trust unproven designs. Sadly that lesson learned cost me thousands of dollars.

Doug

Doug,

Agreed and I think you hit the nail on the head. Some might call the control user unfriendly, but really more of a steep learning curve, which when combined with minimalist bells and lights, (tho in fairness outputs & instructions are provided for adding such so the user can choose his own), it leads to a situation where a laptop is practically a necessity. Out of the box it can do an airstart/dual deploy/ smoke grenade on landing but better be darn sure you have continuity in all channels. Unlike some other altimeters which blare and whine when they aren't happy, or chirp less than the expected times, control does nothing.

Now having said that, no other flight computer I'm aware of can be commanded to airstart at a predetermined velocity or affords real time access to all the sensors readings for use by another program, has dbl contingency events, etc.

To use a car analogy, the control is like a formula 1--gobs of HP, twitchy steering, little more than a tach, and pedals/paddles--not for the faint of heart and lots of practice required to get around the track in one piece--whereas the G-Wiz MC might be likened to a kompressor series Mercedes sedan--plenty of giddy up, but enough understeer and computer assist to get you home safely. Will be my next purchase. No not the Mercedes 😉
J

Hahaha.

Yeah - I think the control has its uses, and I might even get one sometime (though not now - I'm pretty happy with my RRC2). However, if I get one, it would go in a rocket with some redundancy for the deployment, so as to ensure it comes down safely. Going further in the car analogy, the RRC2 is like the simple, reliable car, that, while hardly the fastest or most expensive out there, will get you home safely EVERY time, regardless.

To kind of bring back an older thread to life. I have used the Missile works products both The RRC2 and the RRc2x in both altitude formats and have flown them from as low as 2k in alt and all the way to about 15k and they have never let me down ever. In fact I will beusing 2 of the 40k RRC2x in my Most problems that I have seen ever occur with any of the altimerters most use is normally user error. It happens. Also looking at the Missle Works web site I belive the MPAC is in beta testing and looks to become avaible sometime in the 4th quarter of this year. cant wait. Im ready to gear up for one myself.

Hey Guys

Just my thoughts, I have a Perfectflite MAWD. Flown it over and over and over, it's begaing to look pretty beat up. Never failed once (knock on wood). The funny thing is most of these flights have been in the 50+ gee's range. One flight was to over 15K ft. My wife finaly bought me a second one, for my birthday.
For the repeated 50+G stuff you need to take the blue cover off the capasitor, and glue it down. For a car analogy, the Perfectflite is like a tiny conpact car, got everything you need plus fits in a little tiny parking space.
Direct form Perfectflite $100. Anyway for a firt alt I think the Perfectflite is a good bet also.

CJ

Amen. That cap seems to be the achilles heel of the MAWD. But repeated 50G flights? What are you guys smoking these days in LA? Warp 9, WW?

Perfect Flite: Great customer service as well. But having just received a small jewel of a product, I would invite consideration of the pico-alt if you know enuf not to melt solder with the tip itself. Thing weighs next to nothing, can do DD, and will easily fit w/in a BT20 nose cone. The designer/fabricator is an alphabet flyer himself, and I saw one of his N min diam rockets weighing nothing scream into the air at Balls. You bet it had good avionics--peak G's-around 40.
JS

I'm an altidude junky, so lots of "Great whites" (aka J570) in little tinny rockets.
Hey thanks, I didn't know about the pico-alt, I think I might just need to get me one of thouse.

CJ,

Well you'd be among some kindred spirits if you get out this way, and we got thin air as well. 8)

Chris LaPanse turned me on to pico-alt--at first i was a little leery but when I discovered Bob DeHate designed and builds the pico product line, I knew I was in good hands. He also sells some great little timers that would be perfect for various apps and sell for like 15 bucks a piece.

Hey and if you get a chance try one of those J2315's. I know Charlie Cox is fixin to build a min diam and flies down there.

John S

I would definitly like to get into so setup that does Data acqusition like thrust, G's and all the good stuff as well as be an deployment device for dual deploy and do some video camera stuff. Be able to work with a computer and do some real great software work with the unit as well. My biggest issue is ive always had the best faith in Jim's Products at Missle Works. As they have never let me down and always worked. As well as i am pretty big about trying to support our local vendors as much as possible. Im sure Jim will have the MPAC out later this year. I am also not in care of how small the unit is itself either as I find myself really looking at bigger rockets to fly and most of any altitude stuff I will do will be 54mm tube and larger anyhow. But if you guys were to recomend anything that would do what I want what all would you recomend. Like I say i havent used anything but Missle Works stuff.

Since I own six Missileworks RRC2X's, I can't say anything but good things about Jim's products. He does tell me that the MPAC has gone to the back burner and may not get moved back to the front of the stove for some time though. I've been waiting for him to get me a Beta test board for a year or so. His new altimeters should be out in time for LDRS though and they are definitely a major leap forward for his product line. Smaller, all surface mount and with last altitude memory onboard so power can be lost after apogee and the altitude will still be retained (like the batteries jarring loose on landing). Additionally, the big improvement is they are now 10 bit products instead of 8 bit. (Meaning much better resolution.)

Currently, the RRC2 product line use 8 bit A/D converters to convert the voltage sensed by the barosensor to a number approximating the relative pressure altitude from launch to apogee. 8 bits equates to 1 part in 256 resolution meaning that a standard 25K RRC2X has a best resolution of 25,000 / 256 or 97.65 feet. In all A/D converters, the least significant bit is never really valid and you always have to consider your reading as plus or minus one least significant bit value. SO, an RRC2 will only give you an accurate altitude reading relative to the launch altitude of plus or minus 97,65 feet or 194' or so as the band of accuracy. The 40K version is much worse. Not to knock the product any (after all I own 6 of them!), they are really more of a deployment controller than an accurate and precise indication of altitude. More bits would result in better resolution. The new Missileworks altimeters will be 10 bit, which means that the total range divided by 10 bits of resolution or 1024 will result in a 25K altimeter with plus or minus 24.5 feet or just under 50 feet of uncertainty in the altitude. True 1 foot resolution would require at least 14 or 16 bits of resolution, but A/D converters of this level of resolution are far more expensive than the 8 or 10 bit A/D converters built into the PIC processors used on almost all commercial altimeters.

Sorry if this explanation isn't the best - I could get more detailed about how a standard successive approximation A/D converter works and the way analog voltages from sensors like barosensors and accelerometers are read, but I'd probably bore most of you to tears. The basic thing to remember is the more bits of resolution the better as far as precision and accuracy is concerned. In many cases, more bits won't help as you'll still be limited to the precision of the actual sensor itself. Barosensors on most altimeters are a pretty cheap part and may not be capable of either the level of precision or range that we would like - yet... They will get better as time goes on.

My ideal altimeter by the way, would have a 16 bit A/D and both a baro sensor and an accelerometer, with memory to store at least 5 minutes of flight data at 100 samples/sec. That would allow it to be used to characterize motor burns for research motors from the accelerometer data and the accelerometer data would also help to correct the baro altimeter data. (remember, while barometric altimeters are "relatively" accurate, they depend on mathematical models of atmospheric density and don't take into account the effects of weather, the jet stream, and a variety of other transitory atmospheric effects.)

Oh yeah, other features - a serial data port to download the data to my laptop or feed a telemetry transmitter for downlink during the flight, small enough to fit in a 24mm tube, weigh under 14 grams without the batteries and be able to handle at least 50,000' as the maximum altitude. Also, calibrated and tested to specific pressure altitudes would be nice... of course it would probably cost over $300 for all these features and probably more.

Warren

Warren I know for myself that going on about it would not bore me. Totally understood what you are talking about as I have had some experince with the stuff. I also agree that you and I have same modes of taste as for what we want from an altimeter/data device. But for me size doesnt matter to much. I dont want one to large but adeqate. As far as the cost for me. Well with the thought of a L3 project and the money spent and just spending 400.00 on a motor reload for a single flight a device as we speak would still be considered to me as a valubale affordable reusable piece of equipment. But thats just me. My whole explanation of my continued use of the RRC2x that i have used and i am on about my 5th ones is the good luck with deplyment more then anything. Just always have done good about bringing my rocket down safe. Thats the number one most important thing to me. More then any Alt reading. But if you feel as you wish to bore us please do so as I will be glad to read on!!! But at the same time I would like to hear suggestions on what is out there that is closet to our wants and wishes as i have listed mine.