For those of you who plan on becoming LEUP holders and plan to follow the state laws as well A new Senate Bill 051-08 was just recently passed allowing the director of Division of Oil and Public Safety to establish application fees for explosive permits by rule.
9-7-107-Fees

The short rule is currently it is $75 for type I, $75 for a type II and $75 for a type III permit for three years. They want to raise the price of the type II permit from $75 for three years to $1200 for three years. Currently in Colorado even if you just store rocket motors you have to have all three type permits.

I heard on the radio, the government might be subsidizing digital converter boxes, for when TV actually totally switches over.
So I guess what they really want, is for us to sit home, in a vegitative state, watching thier crapy stupid campains on TV, and listening to how good they are gona make our lives!
That must be it.
Because thats all we will be able to afford to do soon. 😕

Welcome to the New World Order... work, consume, obey...

On the topic of being a 'Automaton"

Parts Department Meeting Today.

New Reginal Parts God.

He Says:
1. Do What You Are Told.
2. Do Not Ask Why.
3. Be Extra Happy Doing Your Job.
4. If You Do Not Think And Just Do, You Could Make More.

He Must Have His Finger On The Heart Beat Of The World.

If There Are Any Un-answered Questions About Anything I Am
Sure You Could Ask Him.

I was in on My day off for the parts meeting, and He suggested
I shave and tuck in My shirt. A very observant, helpful Guy.

Oh Well. Iv'e seen many come and go over the last 26 years of
doing this. I take pride in what I do even when "being Watched" 😯

Mike were do you work? what do you do? this sounds a lot like the place I work.

😆 Thats funny.

Two people sitting at a bar, one says, "what kind of job do you have?". The other replies, "the kind that drives me to drink". The first person replies back, "we must have the same job". 😉

Anyone know what movie that is from, I would be surprised if anyone knows?

Art

Two people sitting at a bar, one says, "what kind of job do you have?". The other replies, "the kind that drives me to drink". The first person replies back, "we must have the same job". 😉

Anyone know what movie that is from, I would be surprised if anyone knows?

Art

Munich 8)

Oh crap! Well never mind.

Great movie and awesome scene though!

Art

Oh crap! Well never mind.

Great movie and awesome scene though!

Art

Dont worry Art. Ive actually never seen it. I might rent it now though.
I looked the line up on the web LOL. 😀

Just to let everyone know that the hearing was rescheduled to Monday the 28th at 1pm.

Several of us are planing on going, let me know if anyone else might go. We can also keep you posted as to what happens.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll plan to be there. It's going into my alarm right now....

Anyone going from the Boulder/Louisville/Broomfield/Westy area? I'm in Louisville and would be happy to carpool down with someone.
If you want to drive down together, let me know 3-887-5160 give me a call.

I'm obviously not the most educated on the manner, but I figure showing up and at least speaking against it can't hurt, I'll let you all get into the fine details.

Murdock

I'll let James complete this with his take on it.

First off, the law has already been passed and signed. Their attitude was "If your not a permit holder you didn't need to know and permit holders were informed that the law was being debated".

The meetings are to determine which fee schedule to use (they have 5 right now) and we cannot ask for an exemption since as the law is written we have to be part of their inspections and permitting. Unfortunately, the one they are leaning toward is the $1200 type II pick. James has offered to intercede on our behalf and work with them to create a modified fee for the "hobbiest". The big boys (businesses) don't like that idea though, they want us to have to share the costs....... So, really, there was not much we could do at the meeting but sit and listen. James took a pretty good pounding by a know it all professor from the School of Mines. I think he handled it pretty well.

I'm not sure where this will end up, but it's going to be a battle none the less.

All,

Just wanted give everyone a little update as to my view of the out come of the meeting. First off if they did not know that we are here they do now, they actually said that in the last week they were made aware of us and some other issues that might be affected by this by the ATFE and others. They also said that they even question if they should even regulate us at all, saying that they thought we might fall under the Division of Fire Safety but not for sure. Did say they would have to check in to it.

Now to help clear things up a little, the state regulations have not changed, the last revision was in 2005. To meet with state regulations anyone that is using and flying rocket motors should have a type I permit. Anyone buying, transporting or selling motor should have a type I and type II permit. If you also need to store motors then you will need a type III as well. This meeting was only to discuss the fee structure.

This is a link to the state regulations:

http://oil.cdle.state.co.us/Public%20Safety/Explosives/EXPLOSIVES%20REGULATIONS2005.doc

This is the only thing that I can find in the state regulations:

1.1 Scope

These rules and regulations shall apply to the use, manufacture, purchase, possession, sale, storage, transportation, and disposal of explosive materials in the State of Colorado by any individual, corporation, company, firm, partnership, association, or state or local government agency.

These rules and regulations shall not apply to:

(H) The use and storage of model rocket motors containing a propellant weight of 62.5 grams or less and which produce less than 17.92 pound seconds of total impulse.

This is their description of the 3 permits they currently have:

Type I Permit: A permit issued by the Division of Oil and Public Safety to individuals who possess and control explosive materials during the use, manufacture, acquisition, purchase, sale, distribution, storage, transportation, or disposal of explosive materials.

Type II Permit: A permit issued by the Division of Oil and Public Safety to corporations, companies, partnerships, firms, individuals operating a business, associations, or state or local government agencies involved in the use, purchase, sale, manufacture, transportation, acquisition, distribution or disposal of explosives materials.

Type III Permit: A permit issued by the Division of Oil and Public Safety to corporations, companies, partnerships, firms, individuals operating a business, associations, or state or local government agencies for the storage of explosives in approved magazines.

There were several scenarios but the one that seemed to be the most popular with the larger businesses is:

Type I $75.00 for 3 years

Type II 1200.00 for 3 years

Type III 75.00 for 3 years

They also were looking at a fee per inspection but will have to see what they come up with. They also were trying to get information on inspections from the ATFE to possibly cut back on some of the field time, cutting back expenses and also possible lowering these fees but may take a couple of years.

Right now we are going to have to wait and see what they draft as
their proposed fee structure. They will send it to everyone that is
a current permit holder and to the people that have given their info to them today at the meeting. Once everyone has had a chance to review it, they can respond in writing. Once this is done there will be a formal hearing and even then changes will be able to be made if they deem necessary.

I really think that our course of action should be seeing if they will write in an exemption to rocketry, add a forth permit dealing with low explosives or transfer regulation to Division of Fire Safety.

I think that I am going to try to sit down with Scott Narreau and or his boss and see what if anything they can do or what they think we should do. Scott is an inspector but does feel that we should not be regulated by the state as well as the ATFE. His boss is retiring in a few days but the interim guy seemed to be interested in rocketry at one time in his life so my be very understanding and willing to discuss possible options.

Over all I do not think things went bad but I still think that we need to be vigilant and work with them to try to work things out. I am not sure that we all should rush out and get these permits but I also am not sure that we will have any relief form them any time soon. I also do not believe we are the highest on their list of priorities and people to go after. I think I will try to talk to them again this week and make my decision to get their permits or not. I would rather pay the 225.00 then the 1350.00 possible. It will also put me in a better position to help out as well if things do not change before we win the lawsuit with the ATFE or the state give us some relief with some kind of exemption.

Sorry to say we are in the same position as we were in before the meeting, still waiting to hear what they are wanting to do with the fees but at lest we now know were we are and know in what direction to start.

I hope that this clears thing up a little for some of the information that may have be going around.

JamesR

just to help with size of thread and simplify things I started a new thread