Con,

I'm still a newbie to research, all i've ever done is WR (russell/woody recipe), but I'm open to trying some new recipes. Also I'd like to try vacuum degassing to get the density up, and voids out. I was really impressed with the wayside white that John Bixler flew--unlike a lot of guys I don't really get stoked by color. Now sparkies--whats not to like except the lower impulse? Maybe we can touch base on a project i ahve most of the parts for, but need to design and test an L3000. Uses three of these in a 1.5 sec burst of nearly a ton of thrust, before a real long burn on the sustainer.

Lots of a SM clone flown at balls but IMHO not yet competitive to the AMW stuff. Sort of a cross between smokey sam and skid.
John

My first dive into Research was origanally with ANCP motors from the formulas based from Wickman. (BTW one cool dude very smart and glad ive gotten to know him pretty well.) WR is a great formula to use pretty color and a good impulse line and its pretty forgiving as propellants go. Im more interested in the forms of thrust without most of the pretty stuff. I dont really care to ever fly Sparky motors as the eat nozzles something bad And I do have a formula for them. but probably wont use it. Im more into the performance aspects of what I want to do. High solids with larger ISP. I want to do some hard hitting stuff but also want to do a long burn motor with burn times from 7 to 12 seconds. But yet still with enough power to move a decent sized rocket.

Wickman's was the first book I read on the subject--would love to go up to Casper for his course if he ever starts doing those again.

As to long burns, I corresponded with Tony a while back for ideas re c-slot geometry with WR. Sounds kind of hit and miss was my impression. But obviously can be done. The project for Balls I referred to is a 1/2 (semi--not gonna get fancy with the interstage or slight mismatch in daimeters) scale Nike/BB with scaled burn durations of 1.5 or so and 13 seconds--so a big hammer blow, followed by a long sustain. All the work this year on my L3 and getting the 2 stager working was to work up the learning curve in preparation for this. So any help/info you can provide on the longburn would be hugely appreciated. For the hard hitting, I think WR can be used if one is willing to sac volumetric efficiency by using unusually wide cores--I think that way the L/D can be kept within a reasonable zone.

Re the nozzle wear, no kidding. Hope this source of graphite thru Ed is gonna be good.
John S

He still does the courses. Next time he calls me or I call him I will ask for sure and when the timelines are. Jim Amos is who first sparked my direction and then the introduction to John Wickman. That was 6 to 7 years ago rougly and ive still go the ex-bug bad. Along the way Ive met many others like recently Darren Wright who is a great source from that as he is the creator of Tiger Tail and several other formulas. I have learned much from him as well.

No as far as long burns instead of going the route of doing a C slot I plan to just get after it with moon burnner cores easy to do other then if you are doing a long motor you have to cast the propellant all in one long slug with an offset dowel and some other tips given to me. This produces a higher thrust at on and then a long burn. Also another great long burn would be to incorperate ANCP motor for the longer burn. Would be very benificial being staged to from a more powerful AP motor.

For the hard hitting the WR is a great propellant BUT remember that anytime you remove AP in place of a effect like smoke or color it loses ISP. Sutton has a formula in a book on elements of rocket propellant. Its just shy of what NASA uses and is very powerful at about 86% solids but runs so hot that most cases will not live. Very hot propellant as temps go. But using something like a Clean burning propellant formulation and a catalist like Chome oxide or Iron oxide can get a bost. without even having to include aluminum for additional fuel. In fact the ole Kosdon fast is nothing more then a AP/binder and Iron Oxide.

Con,

Yes, Jim A has a quiet way of motivating and guiding us in the direction of greater power, more sophisticated projects, etc. He's the guy who got me thinking about a big balls projects, and still harasses me to the day about "when you gonna fly something?"

I think last year scuttlebutt was that John W stopped the courses, maybe just a temporary deal as I know he, like Jim, has a full plate. So if you hear to the contrary, Con, please put up a big announcement here, on Cerg and T-C so those interested can share costs/lodging. Another thought is John Bolene would be willing to come out and host a course on research motors. I've beat this horse to death on the T-C forum, my take is that most of the guys are already very comfortable with their skills/knowledge base as support has been lackluster--even as part of a 2 day event.

I have burnsim--i agree an offset core would be real simple to make--make a template and use two lined up, then the teflon mandrel goes there. Plus depending on offset, some potential packing issues-?

Maybe I didn't try hard enuf, but couldn't get Burnsim to work very well with moonburners. Getting rid of the ends on a bates also takes down the initial Kn to such an extent, you gotta choke down then when the crescent really opens up, aren't you at risk of overpressurization?
John S

I'm currently putting the finishing touches on the M 500 hybrid. Right now it's 98mm and burns for 12-15 seconds. And it's shiny. Did I mention it's shiny? I've got to sway you over to the dark side Conway....

Edward

So Edward, Whats the initial thrust like.. Ive got rocket. BUt weighs in at about 48lbs no motor.

Ahh the darkside.. Did I mention I like Shiny things.

Initial thrust is 200 pounds for about 2/3 of a second.

Edward

Ed,

That big M would be perfect for the top stage of the 1/2 scale Nike/BB--even burns for about 13 seconds and turns on pretty much instantly--plus all the smoke during the blow down--would be friggin perfect I think. What do yu say Ed, can I fly it at LDRS this year?
John S

I'll have to get all the final numbers done for the M. It's kinda heavy and odd diameter 4.5" OD. The first priority of the M motor is a flight in HS-2 - a rocket built by John Bixler. To call it a rocket is a little silly. It's more like motor with fins and something called a parachute (someone said it needed one). Should be a great MHM flight. After that we'll see how it goes.

Edward

Ed,

No sweat. I know John B had plans for that flight for last year. The weight is not an issue--the way I'd like to configure the flight is close to a ton of thrust for 1.5 seconds--should be about 10 gees, then kick the booster, and slow burn--of maybe 2-3 gees for 10 seconds+. Gravity turn might be an issue so be good to have an R/C shut down. Think it could be a very cool flight Ed, and the diameter is not an issue as its an 8 inch diam rocket.
John S

Edward, what is the total impulse of your M500? Are you going to certify it? Sounds intriguing... I do wish it was 4 inch, though. Can't have everything 🙂

The M500 has a total impulse of 9000 N. I'm hoping to up that to around 10,000 N. I don't know about certifying it right now. I've been on/off about doing it. I don't think most people could build light enough in that size to really make use of the long burn. I've seen 4" diameter tanks that I could use, though they cost an arm, leg and kidney. Right now the tank is only about $50 and the true 98mm tanks are well into the $400 range and are much heavier.

Edward

Ed,

Have you priced the composites from Luxfer--likely cost an arm, leg and both kidneys but they are light and 100mm Diam.

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/products/medical/productrange/specifications/us_metric.shtml