I must admit I like seeing that people as per the poll are more for research. Really it in all honesty can brig really good things.

People should not think of Reserach as a regresive step but a forward step into the next level.

hey some of us like those regressive burns 😉
JS

Things are in the works but it is not for sure. NCR needs to get there wavier in place for the next year and then once dates are set for events that will require or may require the 30K window they will be applied for. The research thing will need to be discussed at the meeting and then up to the Prefect and club officers as to if and or when we will be able to engage in the research part of TRA as a club. Do not get impatient, there are people working on this and there seems to be a great interest in it. Lets not get the cart before the horse here, we need to get the research part going and then look at the waiver. To my knowledge no one has gone over the 25k but I think only 1 person has been over the 20K. Do not get me wrong, I am wanting to fly research and use the window but I am more concerned about getting research going and seeing the club move in new directions.

JamesR

James,
Understand and I don't want to push things by applying for a flight that may create some tension. So I'm gonna fly commercial motors in mid-life crisis to just as high as I can w/o breaking waiver. And use a small Research motor in the Black Brant sustainer if allowed.
JS

If I read your question correctly - NO. ANY flight, research or commercial that is going above the 25 K needs approval. The maximum launch altitude of a research flight shall be 75% of the waiver altitude established for the launch.

and that goes for commercial or research motors:

9.9.1 The maximum launch altitude of a research flight shall be 75% of the waiver altitude established for the launch.
9.9.1.1 The BOD may waive this requirement when it can be demonstrated (by past performance, actual thrust curves, etc.) that the performance of the motor(s) to be used shall not exceed the limits of the waiver.
9.9.1.2 Computer simulations without actual thrust data derived from one or more actual test stand firings shall not satisfy the requirements of 9.9.1.1.
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Proven flight data with a particular rocket and motor combination could work.

Well I'm in deep shit... I've been planning flights at 90-95% of waiver altitude including my last couple proposed flights... certified motors to be sure though.

Warren

exactly why i posted the question, my understanding was 75 percent for research, which given the waiver and 25k BoD needs creates a paradox. No research flight can exceed 22.5 in which case you don't need TRA BoD approval for any Ex flight and do need it for commercial flights between 25 and 30.
JS

Well I'm in deep shit... I've been planning flights at 90-95% of waiver altitude including my last couple proposed flights... certified motors to be sure though.

Warren

Note that the requirement can be waived in some cases, and only applies to research launches. You should be OK...

Well I'm in deep shit... I've been planning flights at 90-95% of waiver altitude including my last couple proposed flights... certified motors to be sure though.

Warren

Note that the requirement can be waived in some cases, and only applies to research launches. You should be OK...

Chris, My rocket sims at 29K on commercial motors and intend to fly it
with prior BoD approval. It would seem that if you have static test or other data from flights then you may get some relief, hence the 93K flight at Balls.
JS

Any launch commercial motor or research at a research launch is considered a research launch and has to meet the guidelines set by TRA for a research launch. With good data on rocket and motor configuration BoD can approve a flight predicting over the 75% of the waiver. Things they would most likely want to see is data on said rocket with same, equivalent or greater motor giving a good base line some one could confirm without a doubt the rocket will not break the waiver. That is the most important thing, we do not want to break our waiver. TRA has made an agreement with the FAA to review all flights over 25k, this would be a different approval but could be done at the same time. This is more or less a safety zone that has been factored in to help insure that we do not break the waiver and cause problems with the FAA. If you think you will be right at the 75% you can if you want to file for BoD approval but really not necessary in my opinion because going over a little unintentionally it the whole purpose of it. Planning a flight to go over 75% and close or not to the wavier should have BoD approval just to have someone recheck your figures, info and sims, if it is reasonable they will approve it. Once I have my project done or at lest laid out were I can better decide if I need to go through the BoD for approval.